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CLDR Ticket #10762(design data)

Opened 10 months ago

Last modified 2 months ago

ru: translation of "Islands" in territory names is all over the place

Reported by: fredrik Owned by: fredrik
Component: main Data Locale: ru
Phase: dvet Review:
Weeks: Data Xpath:
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Description

Reviewing territory names in Russian on http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/ru/T_Oceania/ it looks like we have great inconsistencies in abbreviations vs. spelled out and in capitalization. Seems that we should strive for a bit more consistency here.

Apple ref: rdar://problem/33961789

Attachments

Russian Island Naming Conventions-ticket 10762.docx (30.4 KB) - added by kristi 6 months ago.

Change History

comment:1 Changed 10 months ago by kristi

  • Owner changed from anybody to kristi
  • Phase changed from dsub to dvet
  • Status changed from new to design
  • Milestone changed from UNSCH to 33

If there some things specific about Russian translation guide, then we can add to Russian specific translation guide

comment:2 follow-up: ↓ 8 Changed 9 months ago by ataranova@…

The names of different islands look inconsistent for several reasons:

  • whether or not the part "island" is included in the official name of the state. If it is, like for Solomon Islands and Cook Islands, then both words are capitalised - Соломоновы Острова, Острова Кука
  • current guidelines from CLDR were to use "in the middle of the sentence" capitalisation style. Thats why 'острова Питкэрн' is not capitalised, along with о-в Вознесения, о-в Клиппертон, о-в Буве, and others. The part 'island' is not included in the official state name of those islands.

I reviewed all 'island' entries in all territories for RU, and it seems that for consistency we need to change just 1 entry - "острова Питкэрн" to "о-ва Питкэрн".

comment:3 Changed 6 months ago by kristi

  • Milestone changed from 33 to 34

Changed 6 months ago by kristi

comment:4 Changed 6 months ago by kristi

See attached for our suggestion on the naming convention.
If we can agree on a convention, we should add it in the translation guide for Russian specific.

As for the official names referenced in Comment 2, can we clarify the source?

For example, ISO 3166-2 uses the names "Bouvet Island," "Christmas Island, "Northern Mariana Islands," and "Faroe Islands," but these names in Russian use lowercase and abbreviated о-в/о-ва. Furthermore, not all vetters agree that lowercase "остров" should automatically be abbreviated.

comment:5 Changed 6 months ago by kristi

  • Owner changed from kristi to fredrik

Please review the attachment and provide input.

comment:6 Changed 6 months ago by kristi

  • Cc chiara, kristi added

comment:7 Changed 5 months ago by chiara

Google's ru vetter agrees with observations raised in comment #2
More into details, in Russian we need to differentiate between the islands that are part of some country as with Norfolk Island and between islands that make up a separate state and are independent as with the Solomon Islands.
In the first case lower-case "о" for the word "island" should be used while in the second case "О" should be capitalized to denote an independent state.
When looking at the document suggestions in comment #3, the recommended approach would be:

adhering to the 2nd option for capitalization - in other words, "use capital ‘О’ in the names of sovereign nations, lowercase ‘о’ in names of territories and dependencies."
adhering to the 1st option for abbreviation - in other words, "spell out Остров/Острова (or остров/острова) in all CLDR territory names". The 2nd option looks good too, but to avoid possible discussions on when the words should be abbreviated and when not ru linguist would recommend to spell them out in all cases.

comment:8 in reply to: ↑ 2 Changed 5 months ago by kristi

Replying to ataranova@…:

The names of different islands look inconsistent for several reasons:

  • whether or not the part "island" is included in the official name of the state. If it is, like for Solomon Islands and Cook Islands, then both words are capitalised - Соломоновы Острова, Острова Кука
  • current guidelines from CLDR were to use "in the middle of the sentence" capitalisation style. Thats why 'острова Питкэрн' is not capitalised, along with о-в Вознесения, о-в Клиппертон, о-в Буве, and others. The part 'island' is not included in the official state name of those islands.

I reviewed all 'island' entries in all territories for RU, and it seems that for consistency we need to change just 1 entry - "острова Питкэрн" to "о-ва Питкэрн".

There are two parts to this comment and consistency in Territory names in Russian:

  1. Capitalization of "Island"
  2. Abbreviation of "Island" as shown in this example "о-ва"

It would be good to hear your thoughts on the Abbreviation option. (See our comment in the attached doc, and Google's in comment 7.

comment:9 Changed 2 months ago by ataranova@…

About abbreviation: if the part 'island' is not included in the official state name of those islands, I would prefer to see all острова abbreviated as о-ва/о-в, because the data from CLDR is used in different software, and we often see the lack of space and clippings on smaller devices.

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