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CLDR Ticket #11172(new survey)

Opened 4 months ago

Last modified 4 months ago

CLDR code names plural, English name singular, translated name which of both?

Reported by: "Marcel Schneider" <charupdate@…> Owned by: anybody
Component: main Data Locale: France
Phase: dsub Review:
Weeks: Data Xpath: http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/fr/Category/e9b87f48b668cdf
Xref:

Description

Examples such as http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/fr/Category/e9b87f48b668cdf show English code names in plural, but English name in singular form. Some items have English in plural however.

Translating policy seems to always translate the plural from the code name, not the singular from the English name.

Should English name eventually be changed to plural to fit the code name, or should translations always match the English name rather than the code name? The latter would be straightforward if the English name was adapted.

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comment:1 follow-ups: ↓ 2 ↓ 3 Changed 4 months ago by mark

We will document that whether a topic is plural or not can depend on the topic, and the language. We'll also look over the English to check.

comment:2 in reply to: ↑ 1 Changed 4 months ago by Marcel Schneider <charupdate@…>

Replying to mark:

We will document that whether a topic is plural or not can depend on the topic, and the language. We'll also look over the English to check.

http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/fr/Category/e9b87f48b668cdf is "rightwards arrow", http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/v#/fr/Category/b4ab6d41925d220 is "upwards arrows". All seven arrow categories are plural in the code, while six out of them have a singular English name, only the latter is plural. Also the English name of "american_scripts" is "American script". "animals_nature" is named "animal or nature" in English, but the admitted French translation is "animaux et nature". Throughout the section, French follows the code name rather than the English name.

Code names won’t change. Given they are more consistent, they don’t even need to. Would it then be safer to stick with code names for French translations? Actually that is what has been done. But it leads to even more discrepancies between English and French. If I could propose for English, too, I would do so. But changes to the English can be proposed only via the bug tracker.

comment:3 in reply to: ↑ 1 Changed 4 months ago by Marcel Schneider <charupdate@…>

Replying to mark:

We will document that whether a topic is plural or not can depend on the topic, and the language.

Looking closer into the documentation http://cldr.unicode.org/translation/character-labels I now can understand that for character category labels, plural is most appropriate, except "Punctuation" that in English is mostly considered uncountable (but also reported to be both uncountable and countable, as in []), while in French, "ponctuation" is only a complete system of punctuation, while any subset or single marks are "ponctuations". Hence e.g. the General Punctuation block cannot strictly be referred to as "Ponctuation générale", since it lacks all the ASCII punctuations found in Basic Latin. However as a category, the singular is appropriate in both languages, indeed.

From this we can deduce as a clear guideline to generally use the plural form in French category labels, which is what I wanted to find out.

We'll also look over the English to check.

Thank you for correcting where necessary, so that users with a strong experience of English character pickers looking into French ones won’t wonder whether the French guys made a lot of mistakes.

BTW if category labels are useful for headlines in character pickers, character names could be taken from TTS labels to show up in tooltips and status bar.

comment:4 Changed 4 months ago by Marcel Schneider <charupdate@…>

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