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CLDR Ticket #6807(closed defect: fixed)

Opened 4 years ago

Last modified 3 years ago

"Hindi" in Hindi was changed to old-fashioned version

Reported by: markus Owned by: fredrik
Component: main Data Locale: hi
Phase: dsub Review: markus
Weeks: 0.1 Data Xpath:
Xref:

Description

CLDR 24 changed (via Survey Tool, see r9061) the name of "Hindi" in Hindi from the common/modern "हिन्दी" (with Na+Virama) to the old-fashioned "हिंदी" (with Anusvara). For example, http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80 uses the modern spelling in the page title, and 191 times on the page, and the old-fashioned spelling 18 times on the page. The first reaction of a Hindi-native colleague was "that's wrong".

This seems like just the kind of data for which there should be a high hurdle to change.

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Change History

comment:1 Changed 4 years ago by emmons

  • Cc dov added
  • Owner changed from anybody to fredrik
  • Status changed from new to assigned
  • Milestone changed from UNSCH to 25M1

Apple and Google to follow up on other potential archaic forms in Hindi - Here's the voting for the item in CLDR 24....

<language type="hi" alt="proposed-u1090-">हिंदी</language>
<language type="hi" alt="proposed-u1234-">हिंदी</language>

comment:2 Changed 4 years ago by fredrik

  • Status changed from assigned to closed
  • Resolution set to as-designed

We have conferred with the vetters from Apple and Google and they are in agreement that the change in 24 is valid and correct. Among other things, they quote the following instructions from the Indian government:

If in a class of consonants (for example class 'त' is त, थ, द, ध, न.), the fifth consonant- The Panchamakshar, ('न' here) is followed by one of the consonants from the same class, then Anuswar (ं) will be used so as to maintain the consistency and to facilitate printing/writing, for example गंगा, चंचल, ठंडा, संध्या, संपादक (i.e. in सम्पादक - 'म' is followed by a consonant from the same class 'प' (प, फ, ब, भ, म), so it will be written as संपादक, using Anuswar (ं). As against this, if the Panchamakshar is followed by a consonant belonging to the other class, or if the same consonant is repeated, then Panchamakshar will not be changed to Anuswar (ं). For example - अन्य (Panchamakshar 'न' is followed by a consonant 'य' from the other class), अन्न (Panchamakshar 'न' is repeated), सम्मेलन (Panchamakshar 'म' is repeated), सम्मति (Panchamakshar 'म' is repeated), चिन्मय (Panchamakshar 'न' is followed by a consonant from the other class - "म"), उन्मुख (Panchamakshar 'न' is followed by a consonant from the other class - "म") etc.

comment:3 Changed 4 years ago by mbhargava@…

हिन्दी is the customary (commonly used) form. Not हिंदी

I would strongly suggest to keep हिन्दी

Here are some data points to support why हिन्दी is better:

  1. Google Trends shows हिन्दी is queried more. See comparison at http://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80+#q=%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80%2C%20%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80&cmpt=q
  1. Doing a Google search for the words results in 153M hits for हिन्दी while only 100M for हिंदी
  1. Finally, wikipedia page for Hindi has हिन्दी - see result at http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%A6%E0%A5%80

हिंदी actually redirects to हिन्दी page

I also checked in Newspapers, Books - हिन्दी is common used term. Given above datapoints and the fact that we used customary, common use terms in CLDR, I believe हिन्दी is right word here

comment:4 Changed 4 years ago by markus

  • Status changed from closed to reopened
  • Resolution as-designed deleted

Please revert this string to its customary, modern form.
It would be good to get the Hindi data reviewed for other such cases of "official" vs. customary forms.

comment:5 Changed 4 years ago by fredrik

  • Milestone changed from 25M1 to 25rc

No consensus yet. Moving to 25rc.

comment:6 Changed 4 years ago by fredrik

Some debate on the survey tool forum: http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/survey?forum=hi

Last edited 4 years ago by fredrik (previous) (diff)

comment:7 Changed 4 years ago by fredrik

  • Milestone changed from 25rc to 26rc

comment:8 Changed 4 years ago by srl

  • Status changed from reopened to new

reopened->new

comment:9 Changed 3 years ago by pedberg

  • Milestone changed from 26rc to 27dsub

comment:10 Changed 3 years ago by markus

  • Phase set to dsub
  • Milestone changed from 27dsub to 27

comment:11 Changed 3 years ago by markus

  • Keywords google added

comment:12 Changed 3 years ago by Maheswari Raju <maheswarip@…>

Agree with comment:3. It should be हिन्दी not हिंदी.

comment:13 Changed 3 years ago by fredrik

  • Status changed from new to reviewing
  • Review set to markus

Changed in TOT. Conferred with Sasan (Google's coordinator) and will send courtesy email to our Hindi vetter.

comment:14 Changed 3 years ago by markus

  • Status changed from reviewing to closed
  • Resolution set to fixed
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