[Unicode]   Common Locale Data Repository : Bug Tracking Home | Site Map | Search

CLDR Ticket #8062(accepted data)

Opened 3 years ago

Last modified 22 months ago

"Default" attribute for plural / ordinal

Reported by: mark Owned by: mark
Component: supplemental Data Locale:
Phase: rc Review:
Weeks: Data Xpath:


We didn't clearly state that the 'other' case was to be the default. For example, for ordinals in English we say the Nth, not the Nst or the Nnd, or Nrd. But since values for the other languages were not chosen with that in mind, we have some that may be odd. For example, for Russian the 'other' case is only used for decimal values, not integers. Thus I suspect that what we have for cardinals and ordinals is not always the best "default".

Yet changing the rules at this point would be too painful. Not for CLDR itself, but for all the clients that use it for selecting messages.

So we might consider adding another attribute, so that we can say:

<pluralRules locales="ru uk" default="many">

The default for the default would be "other", and the value that is chosen would have to be one of the encompassed pluralRule count values. We'd need to survey people to see what the best value is: I think the key would be to check what category the majority of integers from 0..100 have; if that is not "other", then ask natives whether there should be a different default.

Not sure what the priority of this should be, but I wanted to get it on record.


Change History

comment:1 Changed 3 years ago by kent.karlsson14@…

I took the use case (for ordinals data in CLDR) to be a literal number (a.k.a. numeral) being used as an ordinal number in a sentence-like construct. Thus, for Swedish, 1:e (or 1:a sometimes), 5:e (even though pronounced "femte", "5:te"), 3:e (even though pronounced "tredje", 3:dje").

But the use case you mentioned here is another one. Nth would in Swedish be N:te (not N:e), pronounced "ente", Xth, would be X:de (I'd say, not sure everyone would agree); likewise M:te, Y:de (for "Y-onde"). I.e. depend on the "meta-value" (i.e. the variable letter used), quite differently from when using numerals.

So, in such cases a default does not make sense. You what to know (I assume from the ticket text) is how to write "Nth" (or n-th, or Mth or M-th). And that may be quite different from any of the data for the numerals cases now covered. Not sure about using other variable letters like x and y, nor for other scripts than the Latin script (assuming that the actual variable letter may be important, which may or may not be the case in each actual use instance).

comment:2 Changed 3 years ago by emmons

  • Status changed from new to assigned
  • Component changed from unknown to data-supplemental
  • Priority changed from assess to medium
  • Phase changed from dsub to rc
  • Milestone changed from UNSCH to 27
  • Owner changed from anybody to mark

comment:3 Changed 2 years ago by mark

  • Milestone changed from 27 to 28

comment:4 Changed 2 years ago by markus

  • Type set to data

comment:5 Changed 2 years ago by srl

  • Status changed from assigned to accepted

comment:6 Changed 23 months ago by mark

  • Milestone changed from 28 to 29

comment:7 Changed 22 months ago by emmons

  • Milestone changed from 29 to upcoming

Add a comment

Modify Ticket

as accepted

E-mail address and user name can be saved in the Preferences.

Note: See TracTickets for help on using tickets.