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CLDR Ticket #9025(accepted data)

Opened 21 months ago

Last modified 20 months ago

Norwegian time format

Reported by: nfuller@… Owned by: pedberg
Component: main Data Locale:
Phase: rc Review:
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Description

Can somebody working on the CLDR comment about the Norwegian time formats? Android had a bug raised suggesting the time formats may be incorrect. It is the separator in question: ":" vs ".".

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=188778

This also has my initial analysis tracking down some of the history.

It certainly has changed a few times but I can't find reasoning why it was last changed in http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/changeset/9061.

Thanks.

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comment:1 Changed 20 months ago by emmons

  • Status changed from new to accepted
  • Component changed from unknown to main
  • Priority changed from assess to medium
  • Phase changed from dsub to rc
  • Milestone changed from UNSCH to upcoming
  • Owner changed from anybody to pedberg
  • Type changed from unknown to data

comment:2 Changed 20 months ago by asbjorn@…

Norway has adopted ISO 8601, and ISO 8601 ​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_8601 says and I quote from the Time section:
"Decimal fractions may be added to any of the three time elements. However, a fraction may only be added to the lowest order time element in the representation. A decimal mark, either a comma or a dot (without any preference as stated in resolution 10 of the 22nd General Conference CGPM in 2003, but with a preference for a comma according to ISO 8601:2004)"

The error of time being shown with (.) instead of (:) first showed its ugly head on iPhone iOS8 once released and is now also visible on clean install of Windows 10.

Norwegian language council (and there by Norway) has decided to adopt ISO 8601 and is the authority on the matter.

comment:3 follow-up: ↓ 5 Changed 20 months ago by dispater42@…

So there is a misinterpretation of the ISO? Since the : is a delimiter of hours, minutes and seconds, not hours and 1/100s of an hour (etc...) this has been implemented wrongly. Norway implements ISO8601 as a part of the Norwegian Standard as NS-ISO 8601:2004

comment:4 Changed 20 months ago by dispater42@…

Talk: To further add to the confusion, according to the Norwegian Language Authority (don't ever use wikipedia as an authorative source! Sheesh!) http://www.sprakradet.no/sprakhjelp/Skriveregler/Dato/ , period or decimal are equally optional. This means that both are technically correct, but the common norm is using colon ":" as separator, refer the Norwegian National Broadcaster (http://nrk.no , also the tv broadcasts) and other sources. Note that law documents don't use separators at all...

comment:5 in reply to: ↑ 3 Changed 20 months ago by pedberg

Replying to dispater42@…:

So there is a misinterpretation of the ISO? Since the : is a delimiter of hours, minutes and seconds, not hours and 1/100s of an hour (etc...) this has been implemented wrongly. Norway implements ISO8601 as a part of the Norwegian Standard as NS-ISO 8601:2004

What precisely does it mean to say that "Norway implements ISO8601"? Does it mean that date formats should also change to all be like "2015-10-31" (because that is also part of ISO8601)? I suspect not.

comment:6 Changed 20 months ago by asbjorn@…

This thicket and http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/9030 should be linked.
In that ticket I've listed the reasons you not to further retard the Norwegian locals.
I've tried to find a valid change request for the current Norwegian Bokmål time formats but haven't been able to find valid one.

Is it this change http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/6439 where Norwegian Bokmål time formats got confused?
Could it be possible that suggestion wasn't meant to be absolute one, but just notification that AM/PM is never used in Norwegian Bokmål.
But instead of just removing AM/PM, everything got remove and all that was left was
[E h:mm a] E H.mm
[E h:mm:ss a] E H.mm.ss
[h a] H
[h:mm a] H.mm
[h:mm:ss a] H.mm.ss
If I have read and understood this correctly, then I've also found where the Norwegian Bokmål got fubar'ed.
If you agree with my analysis, then I must insist you revert the time formats for Norwegian Bokmål back to prior to http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/6439 change.
I agree that there is no reason for leaving AM/PM since it isn't used in Norway, but that doesn't make it okay to remove and break the rest of the formats.

Last found change that looks OK http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/5366 and does list a more correct format.

Here is also an earlier change http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/changeset/4786 where the time format was fixed because of some bug in the you repository for Norwegian Bokmål and Norwegian Nynorsk. I can't find a valid change for the current Norwegian Bokmål time formats in you repository.

http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/changeset/9061 refers to that the format change but i could only find the change http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/6439

I referring to http://nrk.no as a reference on whats correct time format to day is per default circular logic and therefore flawed as the time format reared its ugly head on MAC about a year about and has been uesd in and i reference this page on what uses this http://cldr.unicode.org/. As a lot of media businesses NRK uses MAC open source and also probably also some Windows.

pedberg: Norway has adopted elements of ISO 8601 to NS-ISO 8601:2004 the date format "2015-10-31" is allowed, but not prefered. If youlike I can translate the whole page to English http://www.sprakradet.no/sprakhjelp/Skriveregler/Dato/ if you like

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