[Unicode]   Common Locale Data Repository : Bug Tracking Home | Site Map | Search
 
Modify

CLDR Ticket #9346(accepted data)

Opened 15 months ago

Last modified 5 months ago

ja@calendar=chinese standard date formats use strange day numbering

Reported by: pedberg Owned by: pedberg
Component: datetime Data Locale: ja
Phase: rc Review:
Weeks: Data Xpath:
Xref:

Description

Currently, the lunar calendar in Japanese has standard full/long/medium date formats based on the following core (full adds EEEE):

<pattern numbers="hanidec">U年MMMd日</pattern>

with U being the cyclic year name, and months as follows:

  • "正月", "二月", "三月", ... "九月", "十月", "十一月", "十二月"

This produces dates like the following:

癸巳年十二月一〇日
癸巳年十二月一一日
癸巳年十二月一二日
癸...
癸巳年十二月二〇日
癸巳年十二月二一日
癸巳年十二月二二日
...

The day numbering is wrong. The most common numbering is:

  • 一日, 二日, …, 九日, 十日, 十一日, …, 十九日, 二十日, 二十一日, …, 二十九日, 三十日

(although there is a variant that is similar to hanidays)

We might also consider using the following month names:

  • 睦月、弥生、如月、卯月、皐月、水無月、文月、葉月、長月、神無月、霜月、師走

Attachments

Change History

comment:1 Changed 15 months ago by emmons

  • Owner changed from anybody to pedberg
  • Phase changed from dsub to rc
  • Priority changed from assess to medium
  • Status changed from new to accepted
  • Milestone changed from UNSCH to 30

comment:2 Changed 15 months ago by yoshito

First of all, the use of 旧暦 (old calendar) was banned from official use since 1873 in Japan. So there are no official way to represent dates in the calendar.

The day numbering is wrong. The most common numbering is:

一日, 二日, …, 九日, 十日, 十一日, …, 十九日, 二十日, 二十一日, …, 二十九日, 三十日


Above are the correct expressions of date in contemporary Japanese. Such expressions are used with Gregorian calendar as well.

When Gregorian year is written in Kanji, there are two possible representations

  1. 二千十六年 (two - thousand - ten - six)
  2. 二〇一六年 (two - zero - one - six)

When number is more than two digits like Gregorian year, the use of Kanji digits (2. 二〇一六年) is preferred by many people because Kanji spell out number could be redundant (for example, 1999 -> 千九百九十九). When month and date are written with Gregorian year using Kanji digits, there are two common representations

  1. 二〇一六年三月三十日
  2. 二〇一六年三月三〇日

First one uses Kanji digits for year, Kanji spell out number for day (三十 = thirty). Some folks think it's inconsistent with year (二〇一六 - two/zero/one/six), and prefer b. 二〇一六年三月三〇日. Some other folks think Kanji spell out number is the correct form, and it won't be overly redundant for up to two digit numbers.

So the use of Kanji digits for month/day is also accepted by Japanese people, and I would not say they are 'wrong'.

Also, when someone want to show date in old calendar, he may want to use the traditional expression. In old documents, day 20 was written as 廿日 instead 二十日, day 21 was written as 廿一日 instead of 二十一日 (廿 = 二十 = 20). So if you honor traditional style and write something in Japanese traditional calendar, some people may argue that 二十一日 is not appropriate.

In my opinion, in contemporary Japanese, "21日" "二十一日" "二一日" are all used. "21日" is probably the preferred form on online documentation written in horizontal direction, "二一日" might be used for vertical writing, and "二十一日" is used for both.

When date is written in the traditional Japanese calendar, there are no commonly agreed rule. Some may retrofit contemporary Japanese style, while some other may use traditional expression such as "廿一日".


with U being the cyclic year name, and months as follows:

"正月", "二月", "三月", ... "九月", "十月", "十一月", "十二月"


We might also consider using the following month names:

睦月、弥生、如月、卯月、皐月、水無月、文月、葉月、長月、神無月、霜月、師走


It's true that there are month names 睦月, 弥生..
Such month names were commonly found in literature, but not commonly used for recording dated materials. I believe "正月", "二月", "三月",... was official expression even when the Japanese calendar was officially used. You may see some examples below:

http://komonjyo.net/hiduke.html

In my opinion, it's not harmful to add such month names (aliases) to CLDR, but I feel it's a little bit beyond the scope of CLDR. Thoese month names might be handled as alternative forms.. but not primary.

comment:3 in reply to: ↑ description Changed 15 months ago by faragali6848@…


[[Image()]]

==

Replying to pedberg:

Currently, the lunar calendar in Japanese has standard full/long/medium date formats based on the following core (full adds EEEE):

<pattern numbers="hanidec">U年MMMd日</pattern>

with U being the cyclic year name, and months as follows:

  • "正月", "二月", "三月", ... "九月", "十月", "十一月", "十二月"

This produces dates like the following:

癸巳年十二月一〇日
癸巳年十二月一一日
癸巳年十二月一二日
癸...
癸巳年十二月二〇日
癸巳年十二月二一日
癸巳年十二月二二日
...

The day numbering is wrong. The most common numbering is:

  • 一日, 二日, …, 九日, 十日, 十一日, …, 十九日, 二十日, 二十一日, …, 二十九日, 三十日

(although there is a variant that is similar to hanidays)

We might also consider using the following month names:

  • 睦月、弥生、如月、卯月、皐月、水無月、文月、葉月、長月、神無月、霜月、師走

comment:4 Changed 10 months ago by pedberg

  • Milestone changed from 30 to 31

OK, sounds like there is no urgent need to change anything, and this may require more investigation.

comment:5 Changed 5 months ago by pedberg

  • Milestone changed from 31 to 32
View

Add a comment

Modify Ticket

Action
as accepted
Author


E-mail address and user name can be saved in the Preferences.

 
Note: See TracTickets for help on using tickets.