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CLDR Ticket #993(closed defect: fixed)

Opened 12 years ago

Last modified 6 years ago

Ireland - Start of Week

Reported by: robkiely(at)google.com Owned by: pedberg
Component: main Data Locale:
Phase: Review: chrish
Weeks: Data Xpath:




Description (last modified by pedberg) (diff)

In Ireland it is much more common for the start of the week to be Monday, not
Sunday (as marked in Supplemental Data Chart)


Change History

comment:1 Changed 49 years ago by notes2

We will leave Sunday as the start, based on the evidence presented.

comment:2 Changed 49 years ago by old_notes2

We will leave Sunday as the start, based on the evidence presented.

comment:3 Changed 12 years ago by seamus.ociardhuain(at)lit.ie

(Guest Reply)

Although Monday is commonly used by many people in Ireland as the start of the working week, there are good reasons why Sunday should be the default first day.

First, historically it has been considered to be.

Second, there is a legal basis for it: the Interpretation Act 1937, section 12, which says in its schedule:


17.—The word "midnight" means, in relation to any particular day, the point of time at which such day ends.


34.-The word "week", when used without qualification, means the period between midnight on any Saturday and midnight on the next following Saturday.


35.-The word "week-day" means a day which is not a Sunday."

The Act is online at
http://www.acts.ie/zza38y1937.1.html (in English)
http://www.acts.ie/ga.act.1937.0038.1.html (in Irish)

This issue was discussed by the subcommittee of the National Standards Authority of Ireland dealing with "Codes, Character Sets, and Internationalization" (NSAI/ICTSCC/SC4) in 2004, with the conclusion that Sunday should be left as the first day by default.

Séamus Ó Ciardhuáin (NSAI/ICTSCC/SC4 member and CLDR contact)

comment:4 Changed 12 years ago by guest

sent reply 1

comment:5 Changed 12 years ago by mark

changed notes2

comment:6 Changed 12 years ago by mark

moved from incoming to returned

comment:7 Changed 7 years ago by everson@…

  • Status changed from closed to reopened
  • Resolution wontfix deleted

I don't know why, but somehow this has been changed and Monday is now the first day of the week in the en_IE and ga_IE data. This is a mistake and it should be set back to Sunday.

comment:8 Changed 7 years ago by pedberg

  • Cc pedberg added
  • Xref set to 2052, 2785, 3500
  • Description modified (diff)

comment:9 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

  • Status changed from reopened to assigned
  • Component changed from unknown to data
  • Priority changed from assess to major
  • version set to svn
  • Milestone set to 21.0.1
  • Owner set to pedberg

comment:10 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

Create reasons page, point to it

comment:11 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

Doc: Resons for Decisions, under SPecifications

comment:12 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

Here is the history of changes in this area.

  • Before CLDR 1.9 / ICU 4.6, IE was listed (in supplementalData.xml) as using Sunday for the first day of the week.
  • This ticket cldrbug 993: was filed by robkiely(at)google.com requesting a change to Monday as being more common. However the CLDR TC did not find that there was enough evidence for making a change. Also Séamus Ó Ciardhuáin of NSAI, in a comment above, mentioned that although MOnday is sometimes used as the firstDay in a workweek context, there are good reasons in history and law for using Sunday; for the latter, a 1937 law defining Sunday as the firstDay, and an NSAI discussion reconfirming this in 2004.
  • cldrbug 2052: filed by P(at)draigBrady.com claimed that calendars in Ireland use Monday as firstDay, and that glibc follows this convention. Yoshito investigated under that ticket (see http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/2052#comment:12) and in 5 of 6 online transportation schedules that he looked at, the firstDay was Monday. No changes were made under this ticket; they were subsumed by the changes discussed in the next bullet.
  • Per cldrbug 2785: in CLDR 1.9, Yoshito compared against Java (en_IE) and Windows/.NET behavior. Both of these used Monday, so IE was removed from the list of countries that used Sunday (thus defaulting to Monday, the default firstDay for 001 = the world).
  • Per cldrbug 3500: in CLDR 2.0. Yoshito did more comprehensive investigation of firstDay behavior across locales, comparing to Java and Windows, with this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjD1-LizLRWldEp6LVBfMXZvZFdSSjU5NVJWUVhWaEE#gid=0. This confirmed Monday as firstDay for Ireland, and it was explicitly added to the Monday list.
  • However there is new feedback, including feedback from NSAI that firstDay should be restored to Sunday. Also, some of the transportation schedules cited in http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/2052#comment:12 as using Monday have changed to use Sunday, and Michael Everson (in http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/2052#comment:15 and later) has found several others that also use Sunday: Irish Rail, Aer Lingus, etc.

Per CLDR discussion 2011-02-22, we will change firstDay back to Sunday for IE, and as part of this create a CLDR page on which reasons for this and other similar decisions can be documented. This page is https://sites.google.com/site/cldr/index/cldr-spec/reasons-for-decisions

comment:13 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

Also note, NSAI intends to lobby to have glibc, Windows, and Java use Sunday as the firstDay for Ireland.

comment:14 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

  • Review set to chrish

comment:15 Changed 6 years ago by pedberg

Merged into branches/maint/maint-21 per r6610

comment:16 Changed 6 years ago by chrish

  • Status changed from assigned to closed
  • Resolution set to fixed

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