Re: The result of the Plane 14 tag characters review

From: Kenneth Whistler (
Date: Mon Nov 18 2002 - 20:31:06 EST

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    Michael Everson asked:

    > At 13:37 -0800 2002-11-18, Kenneth Whistler wrote:
    > >Go to any Japanese newspaper. There is no required change of
    > >typographic style when Chinese names and placenames are mentioned
    > >in the context of Japanese articles about China.
    > >
    > >Go to any Chinese newspaper. There is no required change of
    > >typographic style when Japanese names and placenames are mentioned
    > >in the context of Chinese articles about Japan.
    > Just to be sure: this means that when a Japanese newspaper it uses
    > the glyphs its readers prefer for Chinese names, not glyphs which
    > Chinese readers may prefer?

    Yes. For obvious reasons.

    > Does this extend to the
    > Simplified/Traditional instance, so that if a Chinese name has the
    > word for horse in it, it uses the Japanese glyph for horse,not either
    > the S or T version of the glyph (assuming for the sake of argument
    > that both occur and that both are different from the preferred
    > Japanese glyph)?

    Yes. Example: The once president of the ROC, known in English as
    Chiang Kai-shek, has a surname which shows several variants.

    Traditional Chinese: U+8523
    Simplified Chinese: U+848B

    Japanese prefers a different, "traditional" simplification of the
    glyph for U+848B. You can see the difference in the Unicode 3.0 book
    charts if you look up U+848B in the charts (p. 693), and then look up
    the corresponding 0x8FD3 in the Shift-JIS Index (p. 931).

    In a Japanese newspaper, the Japanese-style of U+848B will be
    present in the font. If the source is from a simplified Chinese
    rendition of Chiang Kai-shek, then the Japanese presentation will
    simply be the same character, Japanese style. If the source were
    from a traditional Chinese rendition, then the Japanese presentation
    would also represent a "respelling" of the name from U+8523 to
    U+848B (comparable to Schröder --> Schroeder) to get it to use
    a character for which the appropriate Japanese presentational form
    is available.

    In any case, once the correct "spelling" is settled on, there is
    no *stylistic* variation from the rest of the text for the Chinese
    name embedded in Japanese text . It is clearly
    recognized in text as an "alien", i.e., non-Japanese name, and no
    attempt would be made to give it a Japanese name reading, but that
    is merely by virtue of the reader's recognition that
    <U+848B, U+4ECB, U+77F3> is a famous Chinese person -- and would
    be sounded out as Shoo Kaiseki (not *Makomo Sukeishi or some other
    putative Japanese name).


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