Re: What to call it (was: Re: Boustrophedon (was: Re: Question...))

From: Michael Everson (everson@evertype.com)
Date: Fri Nov 07 2008 - 08:17:25 CST

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    On 7 Nov 2008, at 06:13, Hosszu Gabor wrote:

    > Naturally in our home page we use our term (Szekler-Hungarian Rovas).

    You didn't used to. In fact in your declaration of 2008-07-12, you
    used the term "Old Hungarian Runic Writing (Rovásírás)". In letters
    you wrote to me in 1998 you were happy enough to use the terms "old
    Hungarian" and "old Hungarian runes", in addition to "Hungarian rune
    writing".

    I have a PDF by you dated 1998-11-29 entitled "The Hungarian Rune
    Writing". It states:

    "In the middle ages the Hungarian church widely used the runic
    writing. Up to the XIVth century the so called „pálos
    rovásírás” (Pauline Rune Writing) was more frequently used, after then
    the so called „székely rovásírás” (Sekler Rune Writing) was generally
    practised. The Pálos means the name of a religious order, established
    by Hungarians. Székely, or Sekler refers to Hungarians in Eastern
    Hungary, currently the land of the Hungarian speaking Székelys, an
    area that today is part of Romania. Of course it does not mean that
    the Sekler rune writing did not exist before, but we have no
    scientific proof yet."

    The same document on your website dated 2008-10-28 is now entitled
    "The Hungarian Rovas (Runic) Writing". The text now states:

    "In the middle ages the Hungarian church widely used the Rovas
    writing. Up to the 15th century the so called „pálos
    rovásírás” (Pauline Rovas Writing) was more frequently used, after
    then the so called „székely-magyar rovásírás” (Szekler-Hungarian Rovas
    Writing) was generally
    practised. The Pálos means the name of a religious order, established
    by Hungarians in the 13th century. Székely, or Szekler refers to
    Hungarians in Eastern Hungary, currently the land of the Hungarian
    speaking Székelys, an area that today is part of Romania. Of course it
    does not mean that the Szekler-Hungarian Rovas writing did not exist
    before, but we have no scientific proof yet."

    So you changed "runic writing" to "Rovas writing", "Pauline Rune
    Writing" to "Pauline Rovas Writing", "„székely rovásírás” (Sekler Rune
    Writing)" to "„székely-magyar rovásírás” (Szekler-Hungarian Rovas
    Writing)", and so on. Forgive me, but while I can understand that
    there may be terminological disputes within Hungary -- as there are,
    as can be seen for instance in Géza Varga's English-language book "The
    origins of Hunnish Runic Writing" -- we do not have to suffer these
    disputes in English: we have a good term, "Old Hungarian", which has
    been used (in fact) for a long time and which is really very suitable.

    >> On Thu, 6 Nov 2008, Doug Ewell wrote:
    >>
    >> 2. The word "old," particularly in reference to the world's
    >> writing systems, is not negative or derogatory in English.
    >
    > I agree with you. I never stated that this is negative or derogatory.

    Then why is it a problem? If it is not a problem, then it seems to me
    to be reasonable for us to ask you to respect our terminology practice
    in English, and accept "Old Hungarian" as the name for the script in
    the Universal Character Set.

    > However, the name of a script is not unimportant, especially if a
    > certain name is not accurate or not specific for a given script.

    In the English language, "Old Hungarian" refers only to what is known
    in Hungarian as "((székely-)magyar) rovásírás". The term "Old
    Hungarian" is specific to that script and to no other script. It is
    not inaccurate.

    > I understand your intention and I agree with you. From this point I
    > am not going to response to any naming-related statements.

    I believe Doug's intention was to suggest that you accept "Old
    Hungarian" as the name for the script. (Doug, please confirm or deny
    this.) Does what you have said here mean that you will agree to accept
    it?

    I hope so. If so, then we can move on to discuss some of the other
    outstanding issues regarding the encoding of Old Hungarian.

    Szia,
    Michael



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