RE: UTS#10 (collation) : French backwards level 2, and word-breakers.

From: CE Whitehead (cewcathar@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Jul 31 2010 - 08:30:15 CDT

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    From: Fr�d�ric Grosshans (frederic.grosshans@m4x.org)
    Date: Fri Jul 30 2010 - 12:06:16 CDT
    Le vendredi 30 juillet 2010 à 08:36 -0700, Kenneth Whistler a écrit :
    > I suspect that many French users would be utterly unable to
    > tell a "correct" ordering of all the modèle, modelé words
    > from an "incorrect" one, or would frankly much care in practice,
    > as long as they could find what they were looking for in the list.
     
    Hi, Frederic, Ken:
    Order 4's treatment of hyphenation as less important in ordering than case is not what I would prefer
    (however I think there is some argument about the ideal weights of both the hyphen and the case; and for searches both of these characters can probably be considered trivia);

    Here is order 4 (again, from (http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn34/#Section_2_3):
    for reference):
     
    Fleur de lampaul
    Fleur De Lampaul
    Fleur de lis
    Fleurdelisé
    Fleur de lune
    Fleur de Lune
    Fleur de lys
    Fleur-de-lys
    Fleur de Lys
    Fleur-de-Lys
    Fleur De Lys
    Fleur-De-Lys
    Fleurdelysé
    Fleur de lys florencée
    Fleur De Lys (groupe)
    Fleur de lys (homonymie)
    Fleur De Lys (Homonymie)
    Fleur de ma ville
    Fleur de Mai
     
    I'm not French but decided I'd try to order these anyway; I will wait till someone French decides what's right however:

    Fleur de lampaul
    Fleur De Lampaul
    Fleur de lis
    Fleurdelisé
    Fleur de lune
    Fleur de Lune
    Fleur de lys
    Fleur de Lys
    Fleur De Lys
    Fleur De Lys (groupe)
    Fleur de lys (homonymie)
    Fleur De Lys (Homonymie)
    Fleur-de-lys
    Fleur-de-Lys
    Fleur-De-Lys
    Fleur de lys florencée
    Fleurdelysé
    Fleur de ma ville
    Fleur de Mai
     
    (Sorry to be peculiar. I'm not 100% sure about the weighting of the hyphen here; but certainly to me case is less important than hyphenation when establishing collation order; the hyphen might be still more important than I've made it . . . so I like order 5 except Fleur de lys florence' would precede Fleurdelyse;" I'd give spaces more weight in English too;

    also, if I were doing this for a search index I might want Fleur de lys and Fleur de lis together but that requires more information -- that 'y' and 'i' were originally more interchangeable in some European spellings .)
     
    I would have liked to see perhaps also an example where we had single words with multiple diacritic marks/accents too
    such as: http://www.wordreference.com/conj/FRverbs.asp?v=récupérer ; modeler -- suggested by Frederic -- is another possibility for an example; see:
    http://www.wordreference.com/conj/FRverbs.asp?v=modeler)
    Thanks.
     
    Best,
    --C. E. Whitehead
    cewcathar@hotmail.com

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