---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Karl Pentzlin <karl-pentzlin_at_acssoft.de>
Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: U+25CA LOZENGE - why is it in the "Mac OS Roman" character set
(and therefore widespread in current fonts)?
To: Robert Wheelock <rwhlk142_at_gmail.com>
Dear Robert,
you have sent the mail below to my private address but I presume that
it was intended for the Unicode list.
Please resend it to unicode_at_unicode.org. I will answer you there, as I
in fact was engaged in that subject before.
Best wishes
Karl
-- Tuesday, August 14, 2012, 10:14:21 PM, you wrote: RW> On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 6:48 AM, Karl Pentzlin <karl-pentzlin_at_acssoft.de >wrote: RW> RW> Am Montag, 13. August 2012 um 20:53 schrieb Hans Aberg: HA>> The German WP mentions that in the context of the now HA>> discontinued Bildschirmtext, it was called "Raute": HA>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppelkreuz_(Satzzeichen) HA>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bildschirmtext RW> HA>> But otherwise, "Raute" is the same as English "lozenge": HA>> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raute_(Symbol) RW> RW> In fact, I have heavily edited these Wikipedia articles in the last days, RW> Before, they show a mess of "Doppelkreuz", "Raute", and "Nummernzeichen" RW> When I started my current work on a keyboard related paper (which is RW> the first time that I have to write for the general public, rather RW> than for colleagues in the standardizing business), I started with RW> a scheme: RW> "Doppelkreuz" (literally: double cross) is the usual name for "#" RW> as a character. RW> "Raute" is: RW> a. lozenge RW> b. the viewdata square in the now discontinued Bildschirmtext RW> (which roughly corresponds to Viewdata, Videotex or Prestel RW> in other countries.) RW> "Nummernzeichen" (literally: number sign) is a collective term for RW> "#" and the "Numero-Zeichen" № U+2116 NUMERO SIGN, as using it RW> specifically for "#" would cause confusion, as the "#" never was RW> used for marking numbers except on desktop calculators, and the RW> name in fact was used for the NUMERO SIGN also. RW> Then, I extended and edited the Wikipedia articles according to this RW> scheme. RW> Now, after discussing this with several people, I learned that this RW> scheme was too academic, as in fact everybody seems to call the "#" RW> "Raute". The word "Raute" otherwise is unused in colloquial German. RW> You learn in math lessons that there is a geometric form called RW> "Rhombus" (lozenge) which also can be called "Raute", but in the class RW> "Rhombus" is the preferred term. "Raute" also is the preferred term in RW> heraldics, but used by the general public only when referring to the RW> pattern of the Bavarian flag. (Besides, "Raute" is used in the name RW> of some herbs, like Ruta graveolens, but also only by specialists.) RW> The lozenge usually is called "Karo" in colloquial language (like the RW> diamond suit on playing cards), and only "Rhombus" when it deviates RW> too much from a square standing on its corner. RW> Thus, when the "#" came as a new character to the general public RW> with the keypad telephone in the 1970s, together with a name "Raute" RW> which sounds not unknown and not really wrong, thus it got its way RW> into the general public together with the "#" (which, as said, was RW> formerly not used in Germany). RW> "Raute" is e.g. used by customer services which you call when you have RW> a question regarding your mobile phone, and you are told to press the RW> lower right key on your telephone keypad. RW> On the other hand, as far as I know now (and a DIN officer confirmed RW> me this), there is no German standard which uses the term "Raute". RW> RW> Thus, I probably will use the term "Doppelkreuz" but have to remark RW> that I address the character commonly called "Raute". As the RW> discussion so far showed no evidence for any relevant general public RW> use for the lozenge besides the subtotal on desktop calculators, RW> I fortunately do not have to address this in depth. RW> Thanks to all participants so far. RW> RW> - Karl RW> —Reply— RW> The old Dutch florin/guilder sign should be DISUNIFIED from RW> U+0192, the <f> with the leftwards-downsweeping tail used by the RW> IAI (International African Institute) for the voiceless bilabial RW> fricative, IPA /ɸ/. I've moved the florin/guilder over to the RW> Private Use Zone—at codepoint U+E511—in my ISRI Series Fonts (forthcoming). RW> Robert Lloyd Wheelock RW> International Symbolism Research Institute RW> Augusta, ME U.S.A.Received on Wed Aug 15 2012 - 00:10:12 CDT
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