# Inconsistent RBNF Data?

Kent Karlsson kent.karlsson14 at telia.com
Fri Nov 11 06:45:21 CST 2016

```When I submitted the (initial) rules, French had "all hyphens". That was
removed later,
by request from some French translator(s?). I protested, but they are still
not restored.

I suggest you file a CLDR ticket to renew the issue for the CLDR committee.

/Kent K

Den 2016-11-11 08:44, skrev "Philippe Verdy" <verdy_p at wanadoo.fr>:

> Well for French ordinals, this still uses old rules using spaces instead of
> hyphens.
>
> Fractions in French are spelled (like in English) as : cardinal (numerator) +
> space + ordinal (denominator)
> where the ordinal (denominator) here is taking the singular or plural form,
> according to the value of the leading cardinal (numerator) and French plural
> rules.
>
> With the old spelling rules of ordinals still using spaces (like in
> cardinals), it is difficult to guess the values being meant in
> - "(les) deux cent sept millièmes"
>
> But this ambiguity is solved cleanly in all cases by always using hyphens
> instead of spaces within ordinals.
>
> So a fraction will contain its last space just before the full ordinal for the
> denominator :
>
> - "(le) deux-cent-sept-millième" = (the) 1 / 207,000 = the 207,000th
> (singular)
> - "(les) deux-cent-sept-millièmes" = (the) 1 / 207,000 = the 207,000th
> (plural)
> - "(les) deux cent-sept-millièmes" = (the) 2 / 107,000 (plural only)
> - "(les) deux cent sept-millièmes" = (the) 200 / 7,000 (plural only)
> - "(les) deux-cent-sept millièmes" = (the) 207 / 1,000 (plural only)
>
> ----
> Note:  The ordinal (for the numerator) traditionally keeps using spaces
> instead of hyphens, except between tens and units, as in:
>
> - "(tens)-et-un" (10n+1), "(tens)-deux" (10n+2), ... "(tens)-neuf" (10n+9),
> - "soixante-dix" (70) = "septante" (in Belgian French and Swiss French),
> - "soixante-et-onze" (71) = "septante-et-un" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante-douze" (72) = "septante-deux" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante-treize" (73) = "septante-trois" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante-quatorze" (74) = "septante-quatre" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante-quinze" (75) = "septante-cinq" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante-seize" (76) = "septante-six" (in Belgian French and Swiss French),
> - "soixante dix-sept" (77) = "septante-sept" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante dix-huit" (78) = "septante-huit" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "soixante dix-neuf" (79) = "septante-neuf" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt" (80) = "octante" (in Belgian French and Swiss French),
> - "quatre-vingt onze" (81) = "octante-et-un" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt douze" (82) = "octante-deux" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt treize" (83) = "octante-trois" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt quatorze" (84) = "octante-quatre" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt quinze" (85) = "octante-cinq" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt seize" (86) = "octante-six" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt dix-sept" (87) = "octante-sept" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt dix-huit" (88) = "octante-huit" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
> - "quatre-vingt dix-neuf" (89) = "octante-neuf" (in Belgian French and Swiss
> French),
>
> But even in this list of cardinals spaces are also possible everywhere instead
> of hyphens between tens and units, the hyphen is strongly recommended only in
> "quatre-vingt". It is only the most common usage to use hyphens between tens
> an unit in cardinals.
>
> In legal documents, cardinals are written using hyphens everywhere instead of
> spaces.
>
> In all cases (traditional, most common, or legal), the space remains mandatory
> (an hyphen is strictly forbidden there) only between the numerator cardinal
> and the denominator ordinal of a fraction.
>
>
> 2016-11-11 2:10 GMT+01:00 Kent Karlsson <kent.karlsson14 at telia.com>:
>> Looking at the RBNF source can be hard to follow (especially for the more
>> complicated cases, even Italian is
>> quite complex).
>>
>> Though I used my own program for testing nearly a decade ago when I worked on
>> this, there is now a public
>> web page (not made by me, but by the person that took over maintaining the
>> RBNF rules) for testing RBNFs:
>>
>> http://st.unicode.org/cldr-apps/numbers.jsp
>>
>> This is easier to follow than the rules themselves and can be used to find
>> errors and test fixes to the RBNF rules.
>> Note that the rules are in ICU format, not in the XML format found in CLDR.
>> You can edit the rules, and the
>> numbers to be used for testing.
>>
>> /Kent K
>>
>> Den 2016-11-10 11:30, skrev "Rafael Xavier" <rxaviers at gmail.com
>> <http://rxaviers@gmail.com> >:
>>
>>>> That's not quite true for Portuguese - the forms are a bit different. I
>>>> had a quick look at the RBNF though and it looks correct there.
>>>>
>>>> http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/tags/release-30-d05/common/rbnf/pt.xml
>>>> #L78
>>>
>>> +1 confirming existing RBNF for pt is correct (as a native Portuguese
>>> speaker and [1]).
>>>
>>> 1:
>>> http://veja.abril.com.br/blog/sobre-palavras/consultorio/duzentas-mil-pessoa
>>> s-ou-duzentos-mil-pessoas/
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 6:42 AM, Fòram na Gàidhlig <fios at foramnagaidhlig.net
>>> <http://fios@foramnagaidhlig.net> > wrote:
>>>> Sgrìobh Kent Karlsson na leanas 09/11/2016 aig 21:23:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I note that both Spanish and Portuguese has "ciento" as corrections to
>>>>> > the "-feminine" cases.
>>>>
>>>> That's not quite true for Portuguese - the forms are a bit different. I
>>>> had a quick look at the RBNF though and it looks correct there.
>>>>
>>>> http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/tags/release-30-d05/common/rbnf/pt.xml
>>>> #L78
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
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