[97282] THU 05/28/98 13:52 FROM UNICORE@UNICODE.ORG: Re[2]: IRG #11 meeting report; 33 LINES Received: from public.lists.apple.com ([17.254.0.151]) by rlg.org; Thu, 28 May 98 13:52:50 PDT Received: from unicode.org (unicode2.apple.com [17.254.3.212]) by public.lists.apple.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA24506 ; Thu, 28 May 1998 13:45:08 -0700 Received: by unicode.org (NX5.67g/NX3.0S) id AA01013; Thu, 28 May 98 13:12:52 -0700 Message-Id: <9805282012.AA01013@unicode.org> Errors-To: uni-bounce@unicode.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Uml-Sequence: 2072 (1998-05-28 20:12:50 GMT) From: "Tatsuo L. Kobayashi" Reply-To: unicore@unicode.org To: Multiple Recipients of Unicore Cc: Tatsuo_Kobayashi@justsystem.co.jp Date: Thu, 28 May 1998 13:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re[2]: IRG #11 meeting report > The following is from Nelson's IRG report...Plane 2 is looking mighty full, > guess plane 3 will be pressed into service for the spill over, is this the > assumption? There is no discuss about plane 3. We(IRG) will unifiy all submissions >from each national bodies, so there would no spill over. I'm alive :-) ____________________________________________________________________ Tatsuo L. Kobayashi Digital Culture Research Center, JUSTSYSTEM Corp. e-mail)Tatsuo_Kobayashi@justsystem.co.jp [97206] WED 05/27/98 13:34 FROM UNICORE@UNICODE.ORG: RE: IRG #11 meeting report; 323 LINES Received: from public.lists.apple.com ([17.254.0.151]) by rlg.org; Wed, 27 May 98 13:34:40 PDT Received: from unicode.org (unicode2.apple.com [17.254.3.212]) by public.lists.apple.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA20082 ; Wed, 27 May 1998 13:27:02 -0700 Received: by unicode.org (NX5.67g/NX3.0S) id AA25374; Wed, 27 May 98 12:52:07 -0700 Message-Id: <9805271952.AA25374@unicode.org> Errors-To: uni-bounce@unicode.org X-Uml-Sequence: 2057 (1998-05-27 19:52:05 GMT) From: Michael Kung Reply-To: unicore@unicode.org To: Multiple Recipients of Unicore Date: Wed, 27 May 1998 12:52:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RE: IRG #11 meeting report Just to clarify more for you with (1) Delegation reports (2) WG2 related issues (3) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTENSION B(Ext. B) (4) Unification rule for Ext. B (5) Ideographic Description Sequence (6) Font request for printing Unicode 3.0 (7) Miscellaneous (8) Future IRG meetings. Detail Report (1) Delegation reports * Korea has identified the source list for determining the characters to be submitted for ISO10646 Plane 2. This list will be used to for the stage 2 submission. Korea has no plan for stage 1 submission. Korean DO have submission for stage 1 at the end of the IRG meeting. It is about 200+ characters. They have the characters selected back in Korea and misunderstood the submission schedule. It is not clear whether it was submitted at the end of meeting. * In Japan, JISC is in the processing of developing the extension of JIS X0208. The estimate is about 2,000 characters for level 4 extension and 3,000 characters for level 5 extension. The characters are targeted for stage 2 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. Japan has no plan for stage 1 submission. * TCA of Taiwan has identified 30,017 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. The National Bureau of Standards in Taiwan started a project on 11/97 to develop a new CNS standard by translating the ISO 10646-1, Technical Corrigendum 1 and Amendment 1 to Amendment 9 from English to Chinese. The estimated completion date for the project is the end of 5/98. Please note that this is based on CNS 11643-1992 edition. * HKITF has formed a project to develop "Hong Kong Supplementary Chinese Character Set for IT Interchange". Based on this project, Hong Kong has identified 1,252 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. Those are the HongKong government's characters (3000+ total). Some of them are part of extension A already. * The Chinese government is fully behind the IRG work. China is planing to adopt GBK Chinese Internal Code Specification as a national standard by the end of 1999. In addition, about 2,000 of less frequently used characters for people and place name will also be included for this standard. China has created a document IRG/N542 SuperCJK which is a super set of all the characters found in Kangxi Dictionary and Han Yu Da Zi Dian. There are about 55K characters in SuperCJK. About 26K of these characters are already encoded in BMP and Vertical Extension A. China is planning on submitting the remaining 27K characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2. * Vietnam has identified 849 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. Those are the Han characters used in the ancient Vietnamese books. * US reported that Unicode 2.1 is ready for publication. Only two new characters are added to the repertoire Euro Symbol and the Object Replacement character. UTC is planning on publishing Unicode 3.0, however, the schedule is not available at this point. (2) WG2 related issues In WG2, DAM-13 is being balloted. However, Japan found 87 characters in the G column which are not in the G column source list. IRG agreed to vote YES on DAM-13 and then publish an editorial corrigendum later to add the new sources. In addition, Japan also found 7 non-existing characters included in the G column due to a mistake in JIS X0208. China refused to remove those characters because they are referenced by existing software. The agreement is that China will add a special note to state that those characters were originated from JIS X0208. In WG2, pDAM-15 contains only the Kangxi Radicals. Taiwan and China claimed the CJK Radical Supplements is necessary. So the IRG Rapporteur has the action item to take the necessary steps to include both into pDAM-15. (3) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTNESION B (Ext. B) In order to meet the ISO 10646-2 schedule, IRG understands that the ISO10646 Plane 2 repertoire must be frozen by 3/99. During this IRG meeting, each national body has submitted a unified character repertoire for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2. The project for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 will be named as "CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTENSION B". IRG is planning on submitting a working draft of Ext. B to WG2 on 9/98. IRG will have a special working group meeting for the editors from 8/4/98 to 8/6/98 in China to produce a working draft of the unified character repertoire for 9/98 WG2 submission. Michael Kung will be representing US as the editor of this project during the 8/98 IRG meeting. Following is the proposed schedule for this project. Date Actions IRG works on working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B Aug.,98 IRG IRG completes working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B working group meeting in China It will be held from Aug 4-6 in Beijing. IRG submits working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B to WG2 Sept., 98 WG2#35 WG2 reviews submitted working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B from IRG Dec., 98 IRG#12 IRG works on the feedback IRG submits final draft for Unified CJK Ext. B to WG2 Mar., 99 WG2#36 WG2 integrates final draft from IRG into FCD ISO10646-2 WG2 ballots FCD ISO10646-2 May, 99 IRG#13 IRG reviews any available comments on FCD ISO10646-2 Sept., 99 WG2#37 Ballot results of FCD 10646-2 should be available. Following is the Plane 2 submission plan from each national body Ext. B submission China 27K characters Japan Submission for Extension C only Taiwan 31K characters Hong Kong 1252 characters Korea Submission for Extension C only Vietnam 5K characters Since Ext. B are rarely used characters, China believes that most of the characters for Ext. B will not have all five columns filled in as in BMP and Ext. A. Therefore, China suggested to reduce the number of columns for submission. However, Japan had strong objection to the change. Finally, China agreed to keep the same format as Ext. A during the working draft submission of Ext. B. UTC/L2 members should consider this issue and discuss it during the next WG2 meeting. (4) Unification rule for Ext. B IRG is recommending to modify the Unification rules stated in ISO10646-1 Annex T to unify the Unified CJK Ideographs Extension B. The changes is documented in IRG/N567. The main difference between this document and Annex T is the removal of the source separation rule and added the following new sources. We should discuss this in the next L2/UTC meeting. G-source: IRG/N542 "SuperCJK" IRG/N555 "HK characters for inclusion in relapse One of Plane 2 extension" T-source: IRG/N544 "Proposal of the Unification Repertoire for Plane 2" IRG/N547 "Proposal of the Repertoire for Plane 2" K-source: IRG/N567 "Proposal of the Repertoire for Plane 2" V-source: IRG/N543 "Nom Repertoire for ISO/IEC 10646-UCS, CJK Extension A and plane 2" IRG/N558 "Nom additional Repertoire for ISO/IEC 10646 plane 2" With the exception of US, who abstained, all other IRG members agreed to the modification of the Unification rules. This is to allow UTC/L2 to review the modification during the next UTC/L2 meeting and formulate an opinion. (5) Ideographic Description Sequence During this IRG meeting, the full text explaining Ideographic Description Sequence is drafted in IRG N575R. It will be submitted to WG2 for discussion. (6) Font request for printing Unicode 3.0 The US delegation brought up the following formal request during the IRG meeting - UTC will need TrueType font for all 5 columns of the Vertical Extension A - UTC will need TrueType font for the V column of existing Han characters in BMP - UTC needs the source list the Vertical extension A characters - UTC would like to know how many characters came from each source. The font will be used by Unicode Inc. and individuals it designates and only for the purposes of printing Unicode 3.0, 10646, and producing on-line code charts. All other rights belong to the original font vendors. Following is the formal response from IRG * IRG can provide soft copy of the mapping tables and sources to UTC. * There are only bitmap font for V column of existing Han characters in BMP. * Only G & T columns in Vertical extension A have TrueType fonts and the rest are in 96x96 bitmap. * Since the copyright of the fonts belong to the vendor, IRG does not have the right to distribute the font. IRG has asked its members to assist Unicode Consortium to obtain the approval for using the font to print Unicode 3.0. * IRG is willing to provide hardcopy of the code table to Unicode Consortium if vendors agree. IRG would like to know the schedule for Unicode 3.0. The US delegation will find more information regarding the schedule for the next IRG meeting. (7) Miscellaneous In order to help to facilitate the communication of meeting information, the US delegation recommends the following meeting procedures. * Approval of the previous meeting minutes should be adopted as the first agenda item in each IRG meeting. * The next agenda item should be the approval of the meeting agenda and adoption of contribution papers. * The last agenda item of each meeting is to draft the initial agenda of the next meeting. Members should try to propose any new agenda item at least three months prior to the next meeting. The suggestions should be viewed as guidelines and not strict requirements. Although some of the members feel the suggestion is useful, detailed discussion was not done due to time constraint. US delegation will have more offline discussion with Mr. Zhang on this issue. (8) Future meeting In order to allow out of town attendees of both UTC and IRG meeting to have an easier traveling schedule, IRG has agreed to move IRG #12 to December 7th to 11th , 1988 which is the week immediately following the December UTC meeting. IRG #12 will be held in Oracle, Redwood Shores. IRG #13 will be held in Hong Kong around May, 1999. Many thanks to Mr. Tatsuo Kobayashi of JUSTSYSTEM Corp. for hosting the meeting with great logistic arrangement and hospitality. -- Nelson Ng email: nng@us.oracle.com Principal Technical Staff, Server Globalization Technology Phone: (650) 506-8613 Language and Relational Technology Fax: (650) 506-7225 [97171] TUE 05/26/98 16:00 FROM UNICORE@UNICODE.ORG: IRG #11 meeting report; 289 LINES Received: from public.lists.apple.com ([17.254.0.151]) by rlg.org; Tue, 26 May 98 16:00:51 PDT Received: from unicode.org (unicode2.apple.com [17.254.3.212]) by public.lists.apple.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA30332 ; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:55:14 -0700 Received: by unicode.org (NX5.67g/NX3.0S) id AA22356; Tue, 26 May 98 15:28:35 -0700 Message-Id: <9805262228.AA22356@unicode.org> Errors-To: uni-bounce@unicode.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Uml-Sequence: 2052 (1998-05-26 22:28:33 GMT) From: Nelson Ng Reply-To: unicore@unicode.org To: Multiple Recipients of Unicore Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:28:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: IRG #11 meeting report From nng Wed May 20 14:07:03 1998 To: unicore@unicode.org Subject: IRG #11 meeting report reply-to: nng@us.oracle.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 10227 X-Lines: 240 This is my report of ISO/IEC JTC1/SC2/WG2/IRG(Ideographic Rapporteur Group) #11 meeting that took place from 5/11/98 to 5/15/98. This report is intended for UTC use. The meeting was held in Justsystem in Tokushima, Japan. Delegations representing China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Hong Kong, and US attended the meeting. Japan was the largest delegation with eight members for the delegation. The delegation from US included Michael Kung(MSFT), Hideki Hiura(Sun) and Nelson Ng(Oracle). Mr. Zhang Zhoucai from China was the IRG Rapporteur who chaired the meeting. I will start off by providing a one liner bullet item for each issue pertaining to UTC interest. The numbers within parenthesis serve as an index to the more detailed report of each item below. Highlight (1) Delegation reports (2) WG2 related issues (3) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTENSION B(Ext. B) (4) Unification rule for Ext. B (5) Ideographic Description Sequence (6) Font request for printing Unicode 3.0 (7) Miscellaneous (8) Future IRG meetings. Detail Report (1) Delegation reports * Korea has identified the source list for determining the characters to be submitted for ISO10646 Plane 2. This list will be used to for the stage 2 submission. Korea has no plan for stage 1 submission. * In Japan, JISC is in the processing of developing the extension of JIS X0208. The estimate is about 2,000 characters for level 4 extension and 3,000 characters for level 5 extension. The characters are targeted for stage 2 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. Japan has no plan for stage 1 submission. * TCA of Taiwan has identified 30,017 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. The National Bureau of Standards in Taiwan started a project on 11/97 to develop a new CNS standard by translating the ISO 10646-1, Technical Corrigendum 1 and Amendment 1 to Amendment 9 from English to Chinese. The estimated completion date for the project is the end of 5/98. * HKITF has formed a project to develop "Hong Kong Supplementary Chinese Character Set for IT Interchange". Based on this project, Hong Kong has identified 1,252 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. * The Chinese government is fully behind the IRG work. China is planing to adopt GBK Chinese Internal Code Specification as a national standard by the end of 1999. In addition, about 2,000 of less frequently used characters for people and place name will also be included for this standard. China has created a document IRG/N542 SuperCJK which is a super set of all the characters found in Kangxi Dictionary and Han Yu Da Zi Dian. There are about 55K characters in SuperCJK. About 26K of these characters are already encoded in BMP and Vertical Extension A. China is planning on submitting the remaining 27K characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2. * Vietnam has identified 849 characters for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 submission. * US reported that Unicode 2.1 is ready for publication. Only two new characters are added to the repertoire Euro Symbol and the Object Replacement character. UTC is planning on publishing Unicode 3.0, however, the schedule is not available at this point. (2) WG2 related issues In WG2, DAM-13 is being balloted. However, Japan found 87 characters in the G column which are not in the G column source list. IRG agreed to vote YES on DAM-13 and then publish an editorial corrigendum later to add the new sources. In addition, Japan also found 7 non-existing characters included in the G column due to a mistake in JIS X0208. China refused to remove those characters because they are referenced by existing software. The agreement is that China will add a special note to state that those characters were originated from JIS X0208. In WG2, pDAM-15 contains only the Kangxi Radicals. Taiwan and China claimed the CJK Radical Supplements is necessary. So the IRG Rapporteur has the action item to take the necessary steps to include both into pDAM-15. (3) CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTNESION B (Ext. B) In order to meet the ISO 10646-2 schedule, IRG understands that the ISO10646 Plane 2 repertoire must be frozen by 3/99. During this IRG meeting, each national body has submitted a unified character repertoire for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2. The project for stage 1 ISO10646 Plane 2 will be named as "CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPHS EXTENSION B". IRG is planning on submitting a working draft of Ext. B to WG2 on 9/98. IRG will have a special working group meeting for the editors from 8/4/98 to 8/6/98 in China to produce a working draft of the unified character repertoire for 9/98 WG2 submission. Michael Kung will be representing US as the editor of this project during the 8/98 IRG meeting. Following is the proposed schedule for this project. Date Actions IRG works on working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B Aug.,98 IRG IRG completes working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B working group meeting in China IRG submits working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B to WG2 Sept., 98 WG2#35 WG2 reviews submitted working draft of Unified CJK Ext. B from IRG Dec., 98 IRG#12 IRG works on the feedback IRG submits final draft for Unified CJK Ext. B to WG2 Mar., 99 WG2#36 WG2 integrates final draft from IRG into FCD ISO10646-2 WG2 ballots FCD ISO10646-2 May, 99 IRG#13 IRG reviews any available comments on FCD ISO10646-2 Sept., 99 WG2#37 Ballot results of FCD 10646-2 should be available. Following is the Plane 2 submission plan from each national body Ext. B submission China 27K characters Japan Submission for Extension C only Taiwan 31K characters Hong Kong 1252 characters Korea Submission for Extension C only Vietnam 5K characters Since Ext. B are rarely used characters, China believes that most of the characters for Ext. B will not have all five columns filled in as in BMP and Ext. A. Therefore, China suggested to reduce the number of columns for submission. However, Japan had strong objection to the change. Finally, China agreed to keep the same format as Ext. A during the working draft submission of Ext. B. UTC/L2 members should consider this issue and discuss it during the next WG2 meeting. (4) Unification rule for Ext. B IRG is recommending to modify the Unification rules stated in ISO10646-1 Annex T to unify the Unified CJK Ideographs Extension B. The changes is documented in IRG/N567. The main difference between this document and Annex T is the removal of the source separation rule and added the following new sources. G-source: IRG/N542 "SuperCJK" IRG/N555 "HK characters for inclusion in relapse One of Plane 2 extension" T-source: IRG/N544 "Proposal of the Unification Repertoire for Plane 2" IRG/N547 "Proposal of the Repertoire for Plane 2" K-source: IRG/N567 "Proposal of the Repertoire for Plane 2" V-source: IRG/N543 "Nom Repertoire for ISO/IEC 10646-UCS, CJK Extension A and plane 2" IRG/N558 "Nom additional Repertoire for ISO/IEC 10646 plane 2" With the exception of US, who abstained, all other IRG members agreed to the modification of the Unification rules. This is to allow UTC/L2 to review the modification during the next UTC/L2 meeting and formulate an opinion. (5) Ideographic Description Sequence During this IRG meeting, the full text explaining Ideographic Description Sequence is drafted in IRG N575R. It will be submitted to WG2 for discussion. (6) Font request for printing Unicode 3.0 The US delegation brought up the following formal request during the IRG meeting - UTC will need TrueType font for all 5 columns of the Vertical Extension A - UTC will need TrueType font for the V column of existing Han characters in BMP - UTC needs the source list the Vertical extension A characters - UTC would like to know how many characters came from each source. The font will be used by Unicode Inc. and individuals it designates and only for the purposes of printing Unicode 3.0, 10646, and producing on-line code charts. All other rights belong to the original font vendors. Following is the formal response from IRG * IRG can provide soft copy of the mapping tables and sources to UTC. * There are only bitmap font for V column of existing Han characters in BMP. * Only G & T columns in Vertical extension A have TrueType fonts and the rest are in 96x96 bitmap. * Since the copyright of the fonts belong to the vendor, IRG does not have the right to distribute the font. IRG has asked its members to assist Unicode Consortium to obtain the approval for using the font to print Unicode 3.0. * IRG is willing to provide hardcopy of the code table to Unicode Consortium if vendors agree. IRG would like to know the schedule for Unicode 3.0. The US delegation will find more information regarding the schedule for the next IRG meeting. (7) Miscellaneous In order to help to facilitate the communication of meeting information, the US delegation recommends the following meeting procedures. * Approval of the previous meeting minutes should be adopted as the first agenda item in each IRG meeting. * The next agenda item should be the approval of the meeting agenda and adoption of contribution papers. * The last agenda item of each meeting is to draft the initial agenda of the next meeting. Members should try to propose any new agenda item at least three months prior to the next meeting. The suggestions should be viewed as guidelines and not strict requirements. Although some of the members feel the suggestion is useful, detailed discussion was not done due to time constraint. US delegation will have more offline discussion with Mr. Zhang on this issue. (8) Future meeting In order to allow out of town attendees of both UTC and IRG meeting to have an easier traveling schedule, IRG has agreed to move IRG #12 to December 7th to 11th , 1988 which is the week immediately following the December UTC meeting. IRG #12 will be held in Oracle, Redwood Shores. IRG #13 will be held in Hong Kong around May, 1999. Many thanks to Mr. Tatsuo Kobayashi of JUSTSYSTEM Corp. for hosting the meeting with great logistic arrangement and hospitality. -- Nelson Ng email: nng@us.oracle.com Principal Technical Staff, Server Globalization Technology Phone: (650) 506-8613 Language and Relational Technology Fax: (650) 506-7225