L2/98-071
Minutes of the L2 meeting # 172
February 25-27, 1998 in Cupertino
Joint meeting with UTC February 25 -27, 1998
See separate minutes of joint technical meeting [98-070]
Opening of L2 meeting
Administrative agenda
Attendance and membership
Attendance list
| Name | Company | UTC |
UTC |
UTC |
L2 |
| Aliprand, Joan | RLG | CM |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Allen, Julie | Unicode | UO |
UO |
||
| Becker, Joe | Xerox | CM |
CM |
CM |
x |
| Boyle, Chris | Novell | CA |
A |
||
| Carroll, Don | Hewlett-Packard | CA |
CM |
CM |
A |
| Davis, Mark | IBM - Taligent | UO |
UO |
CM |
2nd A |
| Eberg, Peter | Apple | CA |
|||
| Fiscella, John | Production First Software | AM |
AM |
AM |
|
| Freytag, Asmus | Unicode | UO |
UO |
UO |
P |
| Gong, Yu | Oracle | CA |
A |
||
| Hart, Edwin | SHARE | AM |
AM |
AM |
P |
| Honomichl, Lloyd | Novell | CM |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Jenkins, John | Apple | P |
|||
| Ksar, Mike | Hewlett-Packard | CM |
CM |
CM |
P |
| McGowan, Rick | Apple | CA |
CM |
CM |
x |
| Moore, Lisa | IBM | CM |
CM |
CM |
A |
| Murray, Brendan | Lotus | CA |
CA |
CA |
x |
| Ng, Nelson | Oracle | CM |
CM |
CM |
A |
| Oesterle, Julia | Unicode | x |
x |
x |
A |
| Roberts, Gary | NCR | CM |
CM |
CM |
x |
| Sargent, Murray | Microsoft | CM |
CM |
CM |
A |
| Suignard, Michel | Microsoft | CA |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Texin, Tex | Progress Software | AM |
AM |
CM |
P |
| Umamaheswaran, V.S. | IBM | CA |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Whistler, Ken | Sybase | CM |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Winkler, Arnold | Unisys | CM |
CM |
CM |
P |
| Kiraz, George | Lucent | Guest |
O |
||
| Nelson, Paul | Microsoft | Guest |
|||
| Lofting, Peter | Apple | CM |
A |
L2 legend: P - primary, A - alternate, O - observer
Members would like to pay with Credit Card (easy expense vs. complex chaeck request) !!!
George Kriaz from Lucent as an observer.
Send new invoice for Kung as 2nd alternate for Microsoft to Suignard.
Present: IBM, Microsoft, Sybase, Oracle, Progress, Novell, Unicode, Apple, RLG, Unisys, HP, Share.
Action: Arnold to check the possibility for credit card payment with NCITS. Also report all membership changes to NCITS.
Members in jeopardy
Reuters: due to long distance more tolerance - L2 can approve that.
SGI
Spyglass
Action: chair to write jeopardy letters
Membership fees for 1998
Payment required soon.
Approval of last meetings minutes [97-289]
Change text about disapproval of API standards in 97-289 to make it understandable.
Minutes with amendments are approved unanimously.
Registration of new documents and assignment to agenda
| L2/98-072 | Use of collection identifiers for identifying subrepertoires of ISO 10646 | Umamaheswaran | 98-02-27 | 396-D |
| L2/98-073 | Re-visiting definitions of "collection" in Corrigendum 2 of ISO 10646 | Umamaheswaran | 98-02-27 | 396-D |
Approval of agenda
Approved
Next meetings
April 20-22, 1998, hosted by Unisys in Tredyffrin
July 29-31, 1998, Seattle, hosted by Microsoft
December 2-4, 1998, San Jose, hosted by Novell
Ballots
Ballots to vote :
PDAM registration and FPDAM ballot for ISO 10646 - AMD 18 (symbols and others). [98-002, 98-004]
Action: Mike Ksar to check shapes.
PDAM registration
Accepted, Lloyd abstains. 11:0:1:3
FPDAM ballot
237C shape is wrong. 237C and 238D are the same.
Preferred vote : YES; if characters can be shown to have distinct semantics and distinct shape
PDAM registration and PDAM ballot for ISO 10646 - AMD 22 (keyboard symbols). [98-003, 98-005, 98-064]
Complex history - one character was in the wrong location, one character was missing. Change ballot to disapprove
PDAM registration
Accept registration 11:1:0:3
PDAM ballot
Disapprove the ballot with 98-064 as comments. 12:0:0:3
Reconfirmation ballot for ANSI/ISO 4873 - 8-bit codes, structure and rules for implementation [98-013, 98-014]
Accepted: 10:2:0:3
FCD 14652 - Specification of cultural conventions [98-010]
Disapprove: 11:0:0:3 - Comments by Whistler and Winkler
Ballot reports:
Mainly for information
ISO 10646, Amendment 7 - 33 additional characters - published
ISO 10646, Amendment 8 - published
ISO 10646, Amendment 9 - Identifiers - published
ISO 10646, Technical Corrigendum 2 - summary of voting [98-015]
ISO 8859-15, Latin 0 - voting results and comments [98-017]
No disposition of comments has been posted yet.
Mike: for interoperability reasons L2 accepts 8859-15 if:
- only the euro gets added instead of the international currency sign
- no further 8859-x standards gets duplicated with the euro (unenforceable)
- not Latin-0 designation
Asmus: this is not possible. In order to look good, we can accept the euro and separate it from the other added characters from 8859-15.
IBM can live with 8859-15
Unisys: 0x80 or international currency sign.
Ken: vendors are prepared to make non conformant solutions since Latin-0 is such a poor technical proposal.
Asmus: use Unicode, use EUR
Motion: vote NO to 8859-15. For interoperability reasons vote YES, if ...
Accepted position: 10:1:0
ISO 10646, Amendment 13 - Internal and horizontal ideographic supplementation - summary of voting [98-019]
FYI
ISO 10646, Amendment 10 - Ethiopic - disposition
of comments, ready for DAM ballot [98-018]
FYI
U.S. Positions for the SC2 meetings in Seattle
SC2/WG2
see motions
SC2/WG3
see motions
SC2 plenary
see motions
Cultural Adaptability Workshop
Report from the meeting in Ottawa
postponed to next meeting
Recommendations [98-020]
postponed to next meeting
Delegates to SC2 and SC22/WG20 meetings
Selection and participation of delegates for international
meetings [98-012]
ANSI has made the rules more stringent, please read them and live accordingly. Stay the whole meeting, ...
The changes in membership made changes in the delegations to various meetings necessary. All below delegations were approved unanimously. Freytag will participate as liaison from Unicode Consortium.
Delegates to SC2/WG2 in Seattle
Davis, Whistler, Moore, Hart, Carroll, Ksar, (Freytag), Winkler, Suignard, Ng. Michel is caucus leader.
Delegates to SC2/WG3 in Seattle
Hart, (Freytag), Carroll, Ksar, Winkler, Suignard. Michel is caucus leader.
Delegates to SC2 in Seattle
Hart, (Freytag), Ksar, Winkler, Suignard. Michel is HoD.
Delegates to SC2/WG2 in the UK, September 21-25, 1998
next meeting
Delegates to SC2/WG3 in the UK, September 1998 (?)
next meeting
Delegates to IRG, May 1998
Kung (Microsoft) as observer, Ng
Delegates to SC22 plenary in Copenhagen, August 24-28, 1998
next meeting
Delegates to SC22/WG20 in Dublin, June 15-19, 1998 (change)
Whistler, Ng instead of Kung, Ksar
Delegates to SC22/WG20 in Israel, October 19-23, 1998
next meeting
Electronic distribution of documents
I want "deposit" documents --- FTP to .../Workinggroups/
Possibly no password for reading - L2 is public, Unicode not. --- Unicode will check its procedures.
Be aware of password protected documents on other servers (e.g. SC2) --- ask owners for passwords to L2
formats: Word for download, html, pdf
Action: Arnold : send names of unicore members to Keld for access to WG2 documents
Other
Distribution of ISO 1073-2, OCR-B, reference drawings [98-037, 97-246]
Reference drawings can be obtained from NIST and ECMA. NIST wants to stop doing that and has asked for advise, where to send them. ECMA has the drawings, but are not interested in continuation of the distribution. Addition of European characters was converted into a TR by SC2 since no agreement could be found. Now the euro needs to be added.
Needed as an alternative are outline fonts. Also, SC31 could do that.
Uma: Hart is asked to make a recommendation how to deal with that. Ken and Peter Lofting recommend that mathematical formula (i.e.outlines) are sufficient.
Accepted unanymously.
Does the C Standard violate ISO 646 regarding "new line"
Take it offline.
Bengali response
Support the Everson response with Asmus comments.
Use of collection identifiers for identifying sub-repertoires of 10646 [98-072]
Motion: accept the paper as amended and submit them to SC2/WG2 and WG3.
Accepted 11:0:0:4
Re-visiting the definition of "collection" in COR 2 of 10646 [98-073]
Motion: accept the paper as amended and submit them to SC2/WG2 and WG3.
Accepted 11:0:0:4
Voting on joint UTC/L2 meeting recommendations
Accepted in total.
Adjournment
Adjourned
February 27, 1998