Approved Minutes of
the UTC 108
/ L2 205 Joint Meeting
Seattle, WA --
Hosted by Adobe
UTC #108 Agenda
PRESENT: Adobe Systems, Inc, Apple
Computer, Inc
(proxy), Basis Technology Corporation (proxy), Google, Inc., IBM
Corporation,
Justsystem (proxy), Microsoft Corporation, Sun Microsystems (proxy),
Sybase,
Inc., UC Berkeley. 8 full members, 1 institutional member, and 1
supporting
member present, 9.5 total
NOT PRESENT: Denic e.G., India, MIT,
Hewlett
Packard, Monotype Imaging Corporation, Oracle, Pakistan, NLA, SAP AG,
Yahoo!
Inc. 5 full members, 2 institutional members, and 1 supporting
member not
present, 7.5 total
Voting members: 13 full, 3 institutional, 2
supporting
Voting members in regular attendance: 13 full, 2 institutional, 1
supporting
Quorum: 8
Administrative - Calendar Review (A.6)
UTC 109/L2 206 -
UTC 110/L2 207 -
UTC 111/L2 208 -
UTC 112/L2 209 -
Miscellaneous - Members Meeting (D.3)
[108-A1] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Follow up with Agence de la Francophonie regarding their membership.
Administrative - Action Item Review (A.5.2)
[108-A2] Action Item for Lisa Moore, Editorial Committee: Create an FAQ on the Arabic encoding model based on L2/06-240.
Properties - Half width voice marks in Grapheme_Extend (B.14.4)
[108-C1] Consensus: Add U+FF9E HALFWIDTH KATAKANA VOICED SOUND MARK and U+FF9F HALFWIDTH KATAKANA SEMI-VOICED SOUND MARK to Other_Grapheme_Extend in the next version of the standard. [L2/06-246]
[108-A3] Action Item for Mark Davis: Add U+FF9E HALFWIDTH KATAKANA VOICED SOUND MARK and U+FF9F HALFWIDTH KATAKANA SEMI-VOICED SOUND MARK to Other_Grapheme_Extend in PropList.txt for the next version of the standard. [L2/06-246]
Properties - Script Value (B.14.2)
[108-C2] Consensus: Give the script property of "Latin" to all Roman Numerals that do not already have that property. Check the range U+2160..U+2183 and the characters that have "Roman Numeral" in their names. [L2/06-241]
[108-A4] Action Item for Mark Davis: Give the script property of "Latin" to all Roman Numerals that do not already have that property. Check the range U+2160..U+2183 and the characters that have "Roman Numeral" in their names. [L2/06-241]
Properties - General Category (B.14.3)
[108-A5] Action Item for Asmus Freytag, Editorial Committee: Update the documentation on modifier letters in the text of the standard, in Unicode Standard Annex #31: Identifier and Pattern Syntax, and in Unicode Standard Annex #29: Text Boundaries. Clarify how property assignments are made for modifier letters, particularly Lm vs Sk, and their relationship with identifiers and words. Explain why Sk are not in identifiers and words. [L2/06-242, L2/06-243]
[108-A6] Action Item for Asmus Freytag: Propose appropriate text and pointers in UCD.html to clarify the meaning and usage of general category values. [L2/06-242, L2/06-243]
[108-A7] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Update UCD.html as appropriate based on the text proposed by Asmus Freytag in the preceding two actions 108-A5 and 108-A6. [L2/06-242, L2/06-243]
[108-C3] Consensus: Change the general category of U+02EC MODIFIER LETTER VOICING from "Sk" to "Lm". [L2/06-243]
[108-A8] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Change the general category of U+02EC MODIFIER LETTER VOICING from "Sk" to "Lm" in the next version of the standard. [L2/06-243]
[108-A9] Action Item for Mark Davis: Respond to Martin Hosken: As far as we know, rhotic hook is not used in any orthography not in combination with the schwa; if he has evidence to the contrary, please provide. [L2/06-243]
Properties - Comments on Capital R Rotunda (B.14.5)
[108-M1] Motion: Remove acceptance of U+A75A LATIN CAPITAL LETTER R ROTUNDA, pending attestation of usage. [L2/06-252]
Moved by Lisa Moore, seconded by V. S. Umamaheswaran
3 for (Adobe, IBM, MS)
1 against (Sybase)
5.5 abstain (Sun, Justsystem, UC Berkeley, Google, Apple, Basis)
Motion 108-M1 fails.
Properties - NBSP in sentence break (B.14.6)
[108-C4] Consensus: Give U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE the "Sp" Sentence_Break property value. Create an erratum for this on the website. [L2/06-255]
[108-A10] Action Item for Mark Davis: Provide to the Editorial Committee text for an erratum to give U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE the data file of version 5.0. [L2/06-255]
[108-A11] Action Item for Mark Davis: Provide text of a "note added in proof" to Unicode Standard Annex #29: Text Boundaries in the 5.0 book. [L2/06-255]
[108-A12] Action Item for Mark Davis: Incorporate text reflecting the change in consensus 108-C4 in a future proposed update for Unicode Standard Annex #29: Text Boundaries, and update the property in SentenceBreakProperty.txt. [L2/06-255]
Properties - Vertical (B.14.7)
[108-C5] Consensus: The addition of a property "vertical" should be done in the larger context of a vertical layout model. Any property of this sort should be developed in the framework of a technical report. [L2/06-265]
[108-A13] Action Item for Asmus Freytag, Editorial Committee: Add to the character property model an explanation of the importance of comparing proposed property values with existing relevant property values. [L2/06-265]
[108-A14] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Respond to Kent Karlsson on the outcome of his proposal of a vertical property. [L2/06-265]
PRESENT: Adobe Systems, Inc, Apple
Computer, Inc
(proxy), Basis Technology Corporation (proxy), Denic e.G., Google,
Inc., IBM
Corporation, Justsystem (proxy), Microsoft Corporation, Sun
Microsystems
(proxy), Sybase, Inc., UC Berkeley. 9 full members, 1 institutional
member,
and 1 supporting member present, 10.5 total
NOT PRESENT: India, MIT, Hewlett Packard, Monotype Imaging Corporation, Oracle, Pakistan, NLA, SAP AG, Yahoo! Inc. 4 full members, 2 institutional member, and 1 supporting member not present, 6.5 total
Technical Reports - Security Mechanisms (B.12.5)
[108-C6] Consensus: Create a public review issue to define the specification of a stable normalization process. [L2/06-235]
[108-A15]
Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial
Committee: Draft a public review issue based on L2/06-235
to define the specification of a stable normalization process. The
public
review issue is to close
[108-A16]
Action Item for Rick McGowan: Post
the public review issue on a stable normalization process, to close
[108-A17] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Evaluate the possibility and timing of a 5.0.1 release to include property updates and conformance additions to the standard that have been approved by the UTC.
[108-C7] Consensus: Advance Draft Unicode Technical Standard #39: Unicode Security Mechanisms to Unicode Technical Standard #39: Unicode Security Mechanisms making the changes documented in L2/06-282 and those additional comments brought up in discussion. [L2/06-281
[108-A18] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Make the agreed-to updates and post Unicode Technical Standard #39: Unicode Security Mechanisms. [L2/06-235, L2/06-282]
Technical Reports - Security Considerations (B.12.6)
[108-C8] Consensus: Advance Proposed Update Unicode Technical Report #36: Unicode Security Considerations to Unicode Technical Report #36: Unicode Security Considerations. [L2/06-047]
[108-A19] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Review and post Unicode Technical Report #36: Unicode Security Considerations. [L2/06-047]
IETF - IDN (B.5.2)
[108-C9] Consensus: Comment on concerns regarding the use of Unicode raised in the latest version of nextsteps. [L2/06-264, L2/06-263]
[108-A20] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Add FAQs to address concerns that were raised in the nextsteps document. [L2/06-264, L2/06-263]
[108-A21] Action Item for Mark Davis, Michel Suignard, Editorial Committee: Create an internet draft documenting UTC perspectives on IDN. [L2/06-263]
Technical Reports - Collation (B.12.1)
[108-C10] Consensus: In reference to UCA parametric options described in L2/06-254, issue a Proposed Update Unicode Technical Standard #10: Unicode Collation Algorithm that clarifies:
1. Normalization and contractions are not parameters for UCA
2. Variable-weight, backwards, strength,, and semi-stable are parametric options for UCA
3. Preprocessing requires no action
4. Matching requires some clarification
5. The role of parameterization in conformance
[108-A22] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Create a Proposed Update Unicode Technical Standard #10: Unicode Collation Algorithm with the changes regarding parametric options agreed to in 108-C10 and post for public review. [L2/06-254]
[108-A23]
Action Item for Rick McGowan: Post a
public review issue for Proposed Update Unicode Technical Standard
#10:
Unicode Collation Algorithm to close
[108-A24] Action Item for Mark Davis: Continue to work with the collation registry authors to enable it to support Unicode and Unicode's members' collations. [L2/06-253, L2/06-262]
[108-C11] Consensus: Better document the relationships between the Unicode collation algorithm, case folding, and compatibility equivalents. Change the weights for U+FCF2, U+FCF3, U+FCF4, U+FE71, U+FE77. U+FE79, U+FE7B, U+FE7D, U+FE7F (tatweel +accent compatibility characters). Add U+013F LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT and U+0140 LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT to contractions. Make the table and documentation changes in the next version (5.1) of the Unicode collation algorithm. [L2/06-273R]
[108-A25] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Make the table changes related to consensus 108-C11 (changing weights for tatweel + accent compatibility characters and adding U+013F and U+0140 middle dot characters to contractions) in the next version (5.1) of the UCA table. [L2/06-273R]
[108-A26] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Make the clarifications related to the relationships between the Unicode collation algorithm, case folding, and compatibility equivalents (108-C11) in the proposed update of the Unicode Technical Standard #10: Unicode Collation Algorithm. [L2/06-273R]
[108-A27] Action Item for Mark Davis: Forward to Asmus Freytag information on the relationship between the Unicode collation algorithm and case folding for inclusion in Draft Unicode Technical Report #30: Character Foldings. [L2/06-273R]
Technical Reports - Normalization (B.12.3)
[108-A28] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Consider the fragments of text and examples from document L2/06-238 as source material for explanatory text on Unicode Standard Annex #15: Unicode normalization Forms.
[108-A29] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Provide recommendations for how to restructure Unicode Technical Standard #10: Unicode Collation Algorithm and Unicode Standard Annex #15: Unicode normalization Forms for clarity.
[108-A30] Action Item for Mark Davis, Editorial Committee: Add clarifying text to Unicode Standard Annex #15: Unicode normalization Forms regarding when characters are added to the composition exclusions table and when they are not. [L2/06-135]
Technical Reports - Line Breaking (B.12.2)
[108-C12]
Consensus: Make the following changes to four line break classes:
U+00A1,
U+00BF from AI to OP; U+060C from EX to IS; and U+066A from EX to
[108-A31]
Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update
the line break classes: U+00A1, U+00BF from AI to OP; U+060C from EX to
IS; and
U+066A from EX to
[108-A32] Action Item for Asmus Freytag: Update the text of Unicode Standard Annex #14: Line Breaking Properties to reflect above consensus 108-C12, and add clarifying language where necessary for issues that were raised in document L2/06-224, and incorporate in the next proposed update.
[108-A33]
Action Item for Debbie Anderson:
Follow up on script-specific line break questions for N'ko and others
mentioned
in L2/06-224.
Casing Stability (B.16)
[108-C13] Consensus: Request that the officers add a stability policy for bullets 1 and 2 of document L2/06-178 as amended to make it "roundtrip case mapping" everywhere. [L2/06-178]
[108-A34] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Ask the officers to consider the above consensus 108-C13 to create a policy, and communicate the result to WG2.
PRESENT: Adobe Systems, Inc, Apple
Computer, Inc
(proxy), Basis Technology Corporation (proxy), Denic e.G., Google,
Inc., IBM
Corporation, Justsystem (proxy), Microsoft Corporation, Sun
Microsystems
(proxy), Sybase, Inc., UC Berkeley. 9 full members, 1 institutional
member,
and 1 supporting member present, 10.5 total
NOT PRESENT: India, MIT, Hewlett Packard, Monotype Imaging Corporation, Oracle, Pakistan, NLA, SAP AG, Yahoo! Inc. 4 full members, 2 institutional member, and 1 supporting member not present, 6.5 total
Scripts - Lepcha (C.1)
[108-A35] Action Item for Rick McGowan: In a timely manner, find out what the Government of Sikkim would like changed in the three characters for Lepcha encoding. If specific errors are identified, bring them to the attention of UTC and WG2. [L2/06-220]
Scripts - Indic Block Descriptions (C.2)
[108-A36]
Action Item for Eric Muller, Peter
Constable: Update Indic block descriptions as appropriate for post 5.0.
[L2/06-225]
Scripts - Pending WG2 Documents (C.4)
[108-A37]
Action Item for Michael Everson: Look
at L2/04-232
and the feedback documents L2/06-290
and L2/06-293
and make a new proposal if he wants to do so.
[108-A38] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Report to Everson and Andrew West there is no consensus the 4 Balti letters. Discuss and come back when they have consensus. [L2/05-244]
Scripts - Tamil (C.5)
[108-A39]
Action Item for Rick McGowan: Respond
to the author of L2/06-229
that all of the characters he requests for Tamil are already
representable as
sequences, and the standard doesn't include duplicate encoding.
Scripts - Gurmukhi (C.6)[
[108-A40] Action Item for Eric Muller: Respond to Sidhu on L2/06-233. Proposal is not actionable as-is; give UTC recommendations for improvement & resubmission.
Scripts - Ancient Roman Characters (C.7)
[108-A41] Action Item for Deborah Anderson: Invite David Perry to re-write L2/06-256 into a UTN for epigraphers and paleographers. ((e.g., such as "Unicode Character Glyph Model explained to epigraphers and paleographers")) [L2/06-256]
[108-A42] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add the 6 and 5 Roman characters documented in L2/06-234 to the WG2 requirements document for a future amendment of 10646. See consensus 108-C14.
[108-A43] Action Item for Michael Everson: Update the roadmap with new block 10190-101CF, "Ancient Symbols".
[108-A44] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Add six Roman weights and measures and five currency symbols documented in L2/06-234 and consensus 108-C14 to the pipeline.
[108-A45] Action Item for Debbie Anderson: Contact the author of L2/06-234 to get an updated proposal for submission to WG2, and submit fonts to Asmus Freytag.
Scripts - Ancient Roman characters (C.7.2)
[108-A46] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Add C.7.2 L2/06-269 to the agenda for next meeting.
Scripts - Modifier letters (C.8 )
[108-C15] Consensus: Accept U+A788 MODIFIER LETTER LOW CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT for encoding in a future version of the standard. [L2/06-244]
[108-A47] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include U+A788 MODIFIER LETTER LOW CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT. [L2/06-244]
[108-A48] Action Item for Rick McGowan, Lorna Priest: Forward the document L2/06-244 to WG2, and send a font to Asmus Freytag for printing the standard. [L2/06-244]
[108-A49]
Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add
U+A788 MODIFIER LETTER LOW CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT to the requirements
document for Amendment 3. [L2/06-244]
[108-A50] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Follow up with Lorna Priest on L2/06-259 to let her know that agreement was not reached on the properties. There needs to be discussion of the name for "short equal" to add "sign" to the name.
[108-A51] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Put C.8.2 Proposal to Encode Additional Orthographic and Modifier Characters on the agenda for the next meeting. [L2/06-259, L2/06-279]
[108-A52] Action Item for Ken Whistler, Rick McGowan: Document the property decisions and other issues that need to be resolved with regard to the proposal L2/06-259.
Scripts -
[108-C16] Consensus: Accept U+1035 MYANMAR VOWEL SIGN E ABOVE for encoding in a future version of the standard. [L2/06-249]
[108-A53] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include U+1035 MYANMAR VOWEL SIGN E ABOVE, with properties documented in L2/06-259.
[108-A54]
Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add
U+1035 MYANMAR VOWEL SIGN E ABOVE
to
[108-A55] Action Item for Michael Everson: Provide a font to Asmus for printing U+1035 MYANMAR VOWEL SIGN E ABOVE in the standard. [L2/06-249]
Scripts - Cham (C.14)
[108-C17] Consensus: Accept 85 Cham characters at U+AA00 through U+AA5F with block name Cham at AA00..AA5F, with names as documented, for encoding in a future version of the standard. [L2/06-257]
[108-A56] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include 85 Cham characters at U+AA00 through U+AA5F with block Cham AA00-AA5F. [L2/06-257]
[108-A57] Action Item for Michael Everson: Provide a font to Asmus Freytag for printing 85 Cham characters in the standard. [L2/06-257]
Scripts - Malayalam (C.10)
[108-C18] Consensus: Change the six Malayalam chillu names to add "chillu" after "letter": [L2/06-247]
0D7A
MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU NN
0D7B MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU N
0D7C MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU RR
0D7D MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU L
0D7E MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU LL
0D7F MALAYALAM LETTER CHILLU K
[108-A58] Action Item for Eric Muller: Update L2/06-207 tand submit to Rick McGowan for the document register.
[108-A59] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Update the pipeline to include name changes for 6 Malayalam Chillu letters as in consensus 108-C18.
[108-C19] Consensus: In order to allow time to consider recently received information on the 6 Malayalam chillu characters, the UTC does not consider these ready for immediate balloting in amendment 3. [L2/06-296]
[108-A60]
Action Item for Mark Davis, Rick
McGowan: Convey Unicode actions on Malayalam back to the government of
Kerala
and encourage them to provide feedback to WG2. CC correspondence to
Swaran
Lata, Government of India. [L2/06-296]
Scripts - Hangul Jamo (C.20)
[108-A61] Action Item for Asmus Freytag: Reflect the results of UTC discussion of Korean issues in the UTC liaison statement to WG2. [L2/06-289]
Scripts - Telugu (C.12.1)
[108-C20] Consensus: Approve U+0C3D, U+0C58, U+0C59, U+0C62, U+0C63, and U+0C71 from document L2/06-250 for encoding in a future version of the standard. The characters are: [L2/06-250]
0C3D TELUGU SIGN AVAGRAHA
0C58 TELUGU LETTER TSA
0C59 TELUGU LETTER DZA
0C62 TELUGU VOWEL SIGN VOCALIC L
0C63 TELUGU VOWEL SIGN VOCALIC LL
0C71 TELUGU SIGN ARDHAVISARGA
[108-A62] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Add to pipeline: U+0C3D, U+0C58, U+0C59, U+0C62, U+0C63, and U+0C71 from document L2/06-250. See consensus 108-C20.
[108-A63] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add U+0C3D, U+0C58, U+0C59, U+0C62, U+0C63, and U+0C71 from document L2/06-250 to requirements document for a future amendment.
[108-A64]
Action Item for Michael Everson: Get the
font for U+0C3D, U+0C58, U+0C59, U+0C62, U+0C63, and U+0C71 from
document L2/06-250
to Asmus Freytag for printing.
Scripts - Latin and Greek Letters (C.16)
[108-C21] Consensus: Accept four characters for encoding in a future version of the standard: [L2/06-266]
U+2C6F
LATIN CAPITAL LETTER TURNED A
U+03CF GREEK CAPITAL KAI SYMBOL
U+A780 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER TURNED L
U+A781 LATIN SMALL LETTER TURNED L
[108-A65] Action Item for Michel Suignard: Add four characters from document L2/06-266: U+2C6F, U+03CF, U+A780, U+A781 to the requirements document for a future amendment.
[108-A66] Action Item for Michael Everson: Provide a font to Asmus for U+0C3D, U+0C58, U+0C59, U+0C62, U+0C63, and U+0C71 from document L2/06-266.
[108-A67] Action Item for Lisa Moore: Add the following script agenda items to the UTC agenda for next meeting: C.9, C.17, C.18, and C.19.
Public Review Issue 83: Changing Glyph for U+047C/U+047D Cyrillic Omega with Titlo (B.11.2)
[108-C22] Consensus: Close Public Review Issue #83, leaving Cyrillic Omega with Titlo unchanged. The assessment of the UTC is that changing the glyph to be the glyph for "beautiful omega" is inappropriate, and any such character should be encoded separately. [L2/06-033, L2/06-011, L2/06-292]
[108-A68] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Close Public Review Issue #83 according to consensus 108-C22. [L2/06-033, L2/06-011, L2/06-292]
[108-A69] Action Item for Debbie Anderson: Contact Cyrillicists and make a new proposal for "beautiful omega". [L2/06-033, L2/06-011, L2/06-292]
[108-A70] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Annotate the names list appropriately in a future version of the standard, to reflect consensus 108-C22 regarding U+047C/U+047D Cyrillic Omega with Titlo.
Administrative - Minutes Approval (A.5.1)
[108-C23]
Consensus: Approve the minutes of
Joint Meeting UTC 107/L2 204, as amended in discussion. [L2/06-108]
[108-A71] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Extend the PRI close date for UTR #25, PRI #75.
[108-A72] Action Item for Ken Whistler: Communicate the approved UCA changes of this meeting to SC2 OWG/sort as request for changes to 14651 (but not in this version).
Scripts - Saurashtran Haaru consonants (C.13 ) [L2/06-251]
[108-A73] Action Item for Mark Davis: Draft a web page describing representing sequences as entities. See L2/06-251.
[108-A74] Action Item for Rick McGowan: Respond to the author of L2/06-251, conveying the sense of the scripts subcommittee.
UTC Attendance
Person |
Representing
|
Debbie Anderson |
UC Berkeley |
Peter Constable |
Microsoft |
Chris Evans |
Utilika |
Asmus Freytag |
Basis |
Michael Kaplan |
Microsoft |
Mike Ksar |
Microsoft |
Rick McGowan |
Unicode |
Lisa Moore |
IBM |
Eric Muller |
Adobe |
Anshuman Pandey |
self |
Jonathan Pool |
Utilika |
|
Microsoft |
Marcos Sanz |
Denic |
Shawn Steele |
Microsoft |
Michel Suignard |
Microsoft |
V. S. Umamaheswaran |
IBM |
Ken Whistler |
Sybase |
Members Represented
|
Aug 8 |
Aug 9 |
Aug 10 |
Aug 11 |
Full |
|
|
|
|
Adobe |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
Apple |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
Denic |
no |
no |
yes |
no |
|
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
HP |
no |
no |
no |
no |
IBM |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
Justsystem |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
Microsoft |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
Oracle |
no |
no |
no |
no |
SAP |
no |
no |
no |
no |
Sun |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
yes (proxy) |
Sybase |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
Yahoo |
no |
no |
no |
no |
|
|
|
|
|
Institutional |
|
|
|
|
|
no |
no |
no |
no |
|
no |
no |
no |
no |
UC Berkeley |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
|
|
|
|
|
Supporting |
|
|
|
|
Basis |
yes |
yes |
yes |
yes |
Monotype |
no |
no |
no |
no |