From: Andrew C. West (andrewcwest@alumni.princeton.edu)
Date: Fri Dec 13 2002 - 08:16:06 EST
On Fri, 13 Dec 2002 01:33:08 -0800 (PST), Thomas Chan wrote:
> I can't imagine where the yi4 reading comes from, although I note
> that U+3CBC, which looks somewhat similar to U+6C49, is given both yi4 and
> cha4 readings (3: 1549).
>
I was thinking along the same lines. The Kangxi Zidian gives U+3CBC a reading of
YI4 (as does the Unihan database - the CHA4 reading seems to be as a variant
form of U+6C4A). I suspect that either U+6C49 is a variant form of U+3CBC, or
someone has taken it to be so. The element CHA3 U+53C9 is often written with an
open top (like U+4E49), and so it may be that the element U+4E42 seen in U+3CBC
may sometimes be written with a closed top like the character YOU4 (U+53C8), in
which case U+6C49 would naturally be a variant form of U+3CBC ... I'm on very
shaky ground by now, as this pure speculation, and I've got no sources to back
me up. At any rate, what I think is important is that we do not assume that YI4
is wrong and through it out just because none of us recognise the reading ...
though I guess if it is that obscure, it really hasn't got a place in the Unihan
database.
>
> > U+5481 kMandarin GEM4 - GEM4 is Cantonese pinyin (it is a common Cantonese
> > ideograph) - I don't think this ideograph has a Mandarin reading ... but if
it
> > did it would presumably be GAN4 ... which is the reading I give it in
BabelMap
>
> The _Hanyu Da Zidian_ (1: 598) has han2 'breast; milk', xian2 'to hold in
> the mouth', and gan4 'so (quantity)' for readings. But I don't think
> "gem4" is an error--the 1979 PRC _Ci Hai_ has gem4 'so (quantity)' and
> han1 'so (quantity)' for readings, where gem4 corresponds to the same
> vocabulary item as gan4 in the former dictionary. (The han1 reading is
> not Cantonese usage of the character, but Hunanese, despite the identical
> meaning.) It's rare, but sometimes there are unusual Mandarin syllables
> like "gem4" given in dictionaries.
Agreed that oddities like gem4 might slip into a dictionary, but it still is not
a *Mandarin* syllable. Strangely, U+5481 wasn't in Hanyu Da Cidian, but it was
in a PRC Cantonese dictionary I have (Guangzhou Hua Zidian or something like
that), where it was given a Cantonese pinyin reading of GEM (can't remember the
tone), but no Mandarin reading. GEM is the Cantonese reading, but no Mandarin
speaker is going pronounce it with the final M ... it would have to be
Mandarinised to GAN4. If we accept GEM4 as a Mandarin reading we might as well
accept GOK (or something like that) as an alternate Mandarin reading for U+570B
! At any rate, whatever Unicode decides, I for one am not going to put GEM in my
list of Mandarin pinyin syllables in BabelMap.
> > U+6F71 kMandarin YIE - this should be YI1
>
> _Hanyu Da Zidian_ (3: 1736) says ye1 here, but I bet you have a source
> that backs yi1 just as well...
You've sown a seed of doubt in my mind now. I think I got the reading from the
Kangxi Zidian again, but now that I think back YE1 does ring a bell ... I'll
check again.
BTW, I checked my notes last night, and the couple of kRSUnicode errors I
noticed were in CJK-A not CJK-B like I said yesterday :
U+48F1 kRSUnicode 168.5 - should be 164.5
U+4CED kRSUnicode 199.9 - should be 196.9
Andrew
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