Re: Globalized lists

From: Guy Steele (Guy.Steele@Sun.COM)
Date: Wed Dec 14 2005 - 10:32:30 CST

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    On Dec 13, 2005, at 5:39 PM, Philippe Verdy wrote:
    >
    > Care must betaken also when list items are themselves complex, such
    > as when they are also lists possibily using another type of
    > relationship ("and" instead of "or"). The common assumption (in
    > European languagesand in most programming languages) that the and-
    > relation has a greater priority than the or-relation may be opposed
    > to the common meaning used in other languages. The way we can
    > translate these lists may be even more difficult when the operator
    > is implied in long lists (the repetition of the operator may be
    > needed instead of just using the usual comma separation that
    > normally abbreviates such lists), and when at least one of the item
    > is translatable only with bulleted lists.

    Some illustrative examples:

    For a good omelet I need eggs, ham or bacon, and onions.

    I serve it with rolls and butter, toast and marmalade, and bagels,
    cream cheese, and lox.

    [Clearer: I serve it with rolls and butter; toast and marmalade; and
    bagels, cream cheese, and lox. With neither semicolons nor the
    American-style comma before "and", it is nearly impossible to grasp:
    I serve it with rolls and butter, toast and marmalade and bagels,
    cream cheese and lox.]

    My mom serves it with fish and chips and either peanut butter and
    jelly, bacon, lettuce, and tomato, or olives and cream cheese.

    [Clearer: My mom serves it with fish and chips, and either peanut
    butter and jelly; bacon, lettuce, and tomato; or olives and cream
    cheese. Note that in this example some of the commas bind tighter
    than the semicolons but the first comma binds looser.]

    For a good sandwich I need peanut butter and jelly or turkey and mayo
    and wheat bread.

    [Only semantic analysis can disambiguate that one! Clearer: For a
    good sandwich I need peanut butter and jelly or turkey and mayo, and
    wheat bread.]

    For a great sandwich I need peanut butter and jelly or marshmallow
    Fluff.

    [Unclear whether peanut butter comes with that Fluff. Clearer: For a
    great sandwich I need peanut butter and either jelly or marshmallow
    Fluff. Or: For a great sandwich I need peanut butter, and jelly or
    marshmallow Fluff. Or: For a great sandwich I need peanut butter and
    jelly, or marshmallow Fluff.]

    I'll guess that other languages have other punctuation conventions
    for such nested situations.

    --Guy Steele



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