Re: Do non-positional number systems present security issues?

From: SS (sisrivas@blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Mon Apr 12 2010 - 12:57:25 CDT

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    1/
    I think all numbering system based their arithmetic without the use of place
    holder 0, prior to the introduction of placeholder 0.

    2/
     yes, all modern arithmetic and mathematics use positional 0.

    3/
    there is a need to allow ancient numbering systems to operate on limited and
    special situations.
    ie, do not allow these methods to replace contemporary mathematics.

    4/
    There is also a rumoured view that these archaic methods without place
    holder 0 may reach areas of mathematics where the contemporary numbering
    system might not reach. this is a rumour and I'm not an expert on this
    theory.

    Note: I'm not commenting on any security issue that the ancient system might
    cause, if mixed with contemporary system.

    Sinnathurai

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "karl williamson" <public@khwilliamson.com>
    Cc: <unicode@unicode.org>
    Sent: 12 April 2010 18:09
    Subject: Re: Do non-positional number systems present security issues?

    > Shriramana Sharma wrote:
    >> On 2010-Apr-05 01:58, karl williamson wrote:
    >>> Tamil's digits are not positional according to Richard Gillam. They
    >>> have General category of Nd. Could this be used to cause a naive program
    >>> to calculate an incorrect value of an input number, such that mention of
    >>> this possibility would be warranted in TR36?
    >>
    >> Have you read: http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn21/ ? It is hinted (though
    >> not perhaps very explicitly said) that today the positional system is
    >> indeed used. Therefore I (a native Tamil speaker and writer) do not think
    >> that today we would expect applications to *commonly* support the old
    >> numeral system.
    >>
    >> In any case, non-positional evaluation of numbers should only be
    >> performed by an application if it encounters the characters ௰ ௱ and ௲. A
    >> number which does not use these characters can safely be processed as
    >> positional. A number which uses them, on the other hand, will have to be
    >> checked for being properly formatted, i.e. properly composed, since in
    >> the non-positional system digits like ௧ ௨ etc would never be seen
    >> adjacent to each other without being punctuated by one of the three
    >> characters ௰ ௱ and ௲. Therefore any number containing one of ௰ ௱ and ௲
    >> but also containing any two normal digits ௧ ௨ etc adjacent to each other
    >> is badly formatted and hence has no (defined) value.
    >>
    >> Therefore there is a clear distinction between the two systems, and while
    >> the same numerical value can be represented by two different strings of
    >> characters, one for each system, the same string cannot represent two
    >> different numbers. These systems are self-exclusive. I mean to say that
    >> they both naturally exclude the simultaneous use of the other system in
    >> the same number. Therefore I think that there is little scope for
    >> security problems here.
    >>
    >
    > Thanks for your response.
    >
    > Can anyone tell me: Are there other scripts where Gc=Nd characters can
    > behave with other than the positional meanings of the digits 0-9? The
    > only technical note that has "number" in the title is the one that
    > Shriramana mentioned, so I'm assuming not.
    >



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