Re: n4013 Proposal to encode additional Runic characters in the UCS [was: Three modest proposals]

From: Fr�d�ric Grosshans (frederic.grosshans@m4x.org)
Date: Sun Apr 03 2011 - 13:50:03 CDT

  • Next message: Michael Everson: "Re: n4013 Proposal to encode additional Runic characters in the UCS [was: Three modest proposals]"

    Le vendredi 01 avril 2011 à 19:10 +0100, Michael Everson a écrit :
    > Proposal to encode additional Runic characters in the UCS
    > http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n4013.pdf

    Nice follow up from last year's discussion (at least the Tolkien side)
    http://unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2009-m03/0074.htm .

    As for your Tarot proposal, I have some comments / questions.

    The ᛞ glyph variant
    ————————————––––––—
    As stated by Andrew West on his blog
    ( http://babelstone.blogspot.com/2009/01/moon-runes-and-goblin-alphabet.html ) and visible on your figure 3 (Thror's map), Tolkien uses 2 variants of ᛞ (d), one of them looking like a "boxed cross" ☒. Basically he uses the boxed version on the 2 words ending in 'and' ᚫᚾᛞ, while he uses the normal looking ᛞ on the two mords starting with ᛞ . I guess you consider it as a glyph variation of the same character. And indeed, this variation is not used in the letter your reproduce, where one can find the word and written ᚫᚾᛞ 'normally' (e.g. end of line 8), and if I understood Per Linberg's paper correctly ( http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/runes-eng.pdf ), this shape is only used in this text.

    It would be nice to tell that explicitly on your proposal, since the
    very first word of your transcription of Thror's map, ᛋᛏᚫᚾᛞ, doesn't
    look like the reproduction you give in figure 3.

    ᚻᚩᛒ̣ᛁᛏ for ᚻᚩᛒᛒᛁᛏ
    ––––––––––––––––

    On several places on the letter reproduced on figure 5 (e.g. line 5),
    Tolkien uses a subscripted point to double the consonant, writing
    ᚻᚩᛒ̣ᛁᛏ for ᚻᚩᛒᛒᛁᛏ for example. I guess U+0323 COMBINING DOT BELOW has to
    be used for that case. Since such diacritic use is not mentioned in the
    section 14.3 of the Unicode standard, I gues it should mentioned in your
    proposal.

    Gandalf's Rune
    ––––––––––––––
    Per Lindberg mentions a specific 'Gandalf rune' appearing in some runic
    manuscripts, identical with a later certh rune. I guess it is too
    idiosyncratic to be encoded, and is to be unified with the corresponding
    cirth rune, when it will be encoded.

    Historical CryptogrammicRrunes
    ———————————————————————————————

    Do you have any reference (beyond the one you give here) about these
    cryptogrammic runes ? Are such Cryptogrammic runes in other runic
    inscriptions ?

                    Frédéric Grosshans

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