Re: preliminary proposal: New Unicode characters for Arabic music half-flat and half-sharp

Right, I was just pointing out that Turkish music is a potential
complication if changing the glyph for MUSICAL SYMBOL QUARTER TONE
FLAT.

Here's how I understand it:
Arabic music - uses the flat-with-stroke exclusively as a quarter tone flat
Western quarter tone music - uses the reversed flat and
flat-with-stroke interchangeably as a quarter tone flat, but the
reversed flat is more common
Turkish music - uses both the reversed flat and flat-with-stroke
contrastively (neither, strictly speaking, as a quarter tone flat
since quarter tones do not exist in Turkish music)

On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 1:41 PM, sami shumays <abushumays_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
> Just one comment: the reversed flat is not commonly used in Arabic notation,
> it is primarily a Turkish symbol. The symbols Johnny is proposing are
> important so that we can have easy access to the symbols appropriate to our
> music.
>
> Though Arabic and Turkish music systems share many characteristics, they are
> not one unified system. And Johnny and I are not experts in the Turkish
> system, although we have familiarity with it, so experts in Turkish music
> would need to weigh in regarding any additional symbols needed for their
> music. For Arabic Music notation, the two Johnny proposes would be
> sufficient.
>
> -Sami
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Garth Wallace
> Date:03/29/2015 4:02 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Michael Everson
> Cc: unicode_at_unicode.org, Johnny Farraj , Sami Shumays
> Subject: Re: preliminary proposal: New Unicode characters for Arabic music
> half-flat and half-sharp
>
> Wouldn't it be easier just to change the example glyphs for U+1D132 MUSICAL
> SYMBOL QUARTER TONE SHARP and U+1D133 MUSICAL SYMBOL QUARTER TONE FLAT? The
> ones currently in the charts do not appear to be in common use.
>
> The most common symbol for the quarter tone flat, from what I've gathered,
> is a reversed flat sign. Some composers use the flat with stroke. One
> potential complication: AIUI the Arel-Ezgi-Uzdilek system for notating
> Turkish music, which divides each whole tone into nine koma, uses both,
> along with a few altered sharps.
>
> On Sunday, March 29, 2015, Michael Everson <everson_at_evertype.com> wrote:
>
> Johnny,
>
> I’m interested in working with you and Sami on this.
>
> These two characters are often referred to as quarter sharp and quarter flat
> as well. The symbols are also widely used outside Arabic music. The western
> classical tradition from the 20th century on is full of them. They're not
> obscure symbols really. Musicians with even a moderate interest in
> contemporary music are aware of them.
>
> I’m travelling in Sweden working on Blissymbols at the moment, but when I
> get back home on Friday and can consult some of my reference works I’ll get
> in touch with you. It shouldn’t take long to put something together.
>
> Michael Everson
>
> On 29 Mar 2015, at 05:21, Johnny Farraj <johnnyfarraj_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear unicode list members,
>>
>> I wish to get feedback about a new character submission proposal.
>>
>> Currently the Miscellaneous Symbols table (2600-26FF) includes the
>> following characters:
>>
>> 266D ♭ MUSIC FLAT SIGN
>> 266F ♯ MUSIC SHARP SIGN
>>
>> while the Musical Symbols table (1D100 - 1D1FF) includes the following
>> characters:
>>
>> 1D12A 𝄪 MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE SHARP
>> 1D12B 𝄫 MUSICAL SYMBOL DOUBLE FLAT
>> 1D12C 𝄬 MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT UP
>> 1D12D 𝄭 MUSICAL SYMBOL FLAT DOWN
>> 1D130 𝄰 MUSICAL SYMBOL SHARP UP
>> 1D131 𝄱 MUSICAL SYMBOL SHARP DOWN
>> 1D132 𝄲 MUSICAL SYMBOL QUARTER TONE SHARP
>> 1D133 𝄳 MUSICAL SYMBOL QUARTER TONE FLAT
>>
>> I am proposing the addition of 2 new characters to the Musical Symbols
>> table:
>>
>> - the half-flat sign (lower note by a quarter tone)
>> - the half-sharp sign (raise note by a quarter tone)
>>
>> <half-flat sign.png>
>> <half-sharp sign.png>
>>
>>
>> These are widely used in Arabic music notation, and they express intervals
>> that are multiples of quarter tones.
>>
>> I am the primary sponsor of this proposal. As far as my credentials, I am
>> the owner of http://maqamworld.com, the most widely used online resource on
>> Arabic music theory, in English.
>> I can also enlist the support of many academics in the ethnomusicology
>> field, who specialize in Arabic music.
>>
>> I welcome any feedback on this proposal.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Johnny Farraj
>> johnnyfarraj_at_yahoo.com
>
>
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Received on Sun Mar 29 2015 - 16:31:06 CDT