Re: Dates in Japanese Era Names in Unicode Standard

> Your analysis sounds very plausible. I suggest you send an official
error report using http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html.

Thank you, Martin!
I sent a suggestion there together with a link to discussion here.

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 at 14:43 Martin J. Dürst <duerst_at_it.aoyama.ac.jp> wrote:

> Hello Junichi,
>
> Your analysis sounds very plausible. I suggest you send an official
> error report using http://www.unicode.org/reporting.html.
>
> Regards, Martin.
>
> On 2016/09/30 13:16, 千葉 淳一 wrote:
> >> Is it possible that these eras start at midday instead of noon ?
> >> This could explain the date difference, if you do not set the time in
> > your query
> >> (your query will assume a default time at 00:00 midnight)
> >
> > The new era starts 00:00 midnight local time.
> > Together with the time zone difference, I assume that the cause was a
> > simple chain of mistakes while drafting the unicode document.
> >
> > My story:
> >
> > First, the author for the Table 22-8 asks somebody to send a list of the
> > dates.
> > For the table to work, the accuracy of "day" should be enough, rather
> than
> > time.
> > The "day" value is thus recorded in YYYYMMDD format.
> > It is then listed in a file format like a spreadsheet, that keeps day
> value
> > in "time" accuracy with time zone marker.
> > As there is no intention to keep it in "time" accuracy, let's suppose
> that
> > a default marker such as UTC+0 is embed automatically.
> >
> > The spreadsheet is then sent to the author and opened in more "Western"
> > time zone than it was recorded.
> > Upon opening the file, the dates were converted to local time zone.
> > Specifying a more "Western" time zone results in smaller date values.
> > Thus the smaller values are picked up by the author for Table 22-8.
> >
> > Actually all of the day values in Table 22-8 are shifted by one earlier.
> >
> > Current values:
> > U+337B square era name heisei 1989-01-07 to present day
> > U+337C square era name syouwa 1926-12-24 to 1989-01-06
> > U+337D square era name taisyou 1912-07-29 to 1926-12-23
> > U+337E square era name meizi 1867 to 1912-07-28
> >
> > Suggested correction:
> > U+337B square era name heisei 1989-01-08 to present day
> > U+337C square era name syouwa 1926-12-25 to 1989-01-07
> > U+337D square era name taisyou 1912-07-30 to 1926-12-24
> > U+337E square era name meizi 1868 to 1912-07-29
> >
> >
> > Here are some citations.
> >
> > I will cite from the most reliable source, law database provided by the
> > government (in Japanese).
> > This is the actual law about when Heisei shall start:
> >
> http://law.e-gov.go.jp/cgi-bin/idxselect.cgi?IDX_OPT=1&H_NAME=%8C%B3%8D%86%82%F0%89%FC%82%DF%82%E9%90%AD%97%DF&H_NAME_YOMI=%82%A0&H_NO_GENGO=H&H_NO_YEAR=&H_NO_TYPE=2&H_NO_NO=&H_FILE_NAME=S64SE001&H_RYAKU=1&H_CTG=1&H_YOMI_GUN=1&H_CTG_GUN=1
> >
> >> 昭和六十四年一月七日政令第一号
> >> ...
> >> 元号を平成に改める。
> >> 附則
> >> この政令は、公布の日の翌日から施行する。
> >
> > Translation:
> >> Showa 64 January 7 Ordinance 1
> >> ...
> >> Era name shall be Heisei.
> >> Appendix
> >> This ordinance shall be effective since the next day of promulgation.
> >
> > The release date was January 7.
> > As Martin mentioned, Heisei started on the next day of the announcement.
> > Thus Showa lasted until the end of January 7 very midnight, then Heisei
> > started at very morning of January 8.
> >
> >> On the other hand, I saw places that said Showa 64 as late as July (that
> >> was when I climbed Mt. Fuji; a placard put up the year before said
> >> "closed until July Showa 64").
> >
> > I remember the same thing when I was a child.
> > For about a half year, many things such as application forms and street
> > signs still displayed in Showa. I saw Passport and License showing
> > expiration date as Showa 70 or 80. Coins are printed and stocked before
> > release, so there are circulation of Showa 64 coins.
> >
> > People often carry a conversion table like:
> > 1986 : Showa 61
> > 1987 : Showa 62
> > 1988 : Showa 63
> > 1989 : Showa 64 : Heisei 1
> > 1990 : Showa 65 : Heisei 2
> > 1991 : Showa 66 : Heisei 3
> >
> > I also cite start of Showa. This is citation from Wikisource, another
> > reliable source for public documents.
> >
> https://ja.wikisource.org/wiki/%E6%98%AD%E5%92%8C%E3%83%88%E6%94%B9%E5%85%83
> >> 朕皇祖皇宗ノ威靈ニ賴リ大統ヲ承ケ萬機ヲ總フ茲ニ定制ニ遵ヒ元號ヲ建テ大正十五年十二月二十五日以後ヲ改メテ昭和元年ト爲ス
> >> 御名御璽
> >> 大正十五年十二月二十五日
> > Translation:
> >> In the name of Emperor who is given inherited soverignty to administer
> > state affairs, We let Taisho 15 December 25 and forth be begin of Showa.
> >> Signed by Emperor
> >> Taisho 15 December 25
> > As Martin mentioned, eras before Heisei were renewed in the way that
> > announcement overwrites the old day.
> >
> >
> > Here is start of Taisho:
> >
> https://ja.wikisource.org/wiki/%E6%98%8E%E6%B2%BB%E5%9B%9B%E5%8D%81%E4%BA%94%E5%B9%B4%E4%B8%83%E6%9C%88%E4%B8%89%E5%8D%81%E6%97%A5%E4%BB%A5%E5%BE%8C%E3%83%B2%E6%94%B9%E3%83%A1%E3%83%86%E5%A4%A7%E6%AD%A3%E5%85%83%E5%B9%B4%E3%83%88%E7%88%B2%E3%82%B9
> >> 朕菲德ヲ以テ大統ヲ承ケ祖宗ノ靈ニ誥ケテ萬機ノ政ヲ行フ茲ニ
> >> 先帝ノ定制ニ遵ヒ明治四十五年七月三十日以後ヲ改メテ大正元年ト爲ス主者施行セヨ
> >> 御名御璽
> >> 明治四十五年七月三十日
> >
> > Translation:
> >> In the name of Emperor under inherited spirit of soverignty to
> administer
> > state affairs with virtue, We let, regarding ordinance enacted by the
> > previous Emperor, Meiji 45 July 30 and forth be begin of Taisho.
> >> Signed by Emperor
> >> Meiji 45 July 30
> >
> > With this law, Meiji 45 July 30 is overwritten by Taisho 1 July 30.
> >
> >
> > Lastly, here is start of Meiji.
> >
> https://ja.wikisource.org/wiki/%E4%BB%8A%E5%BE%8C%E5%B9%B4%E8%99%9F%E3%83%8F%E5%BE%A1%E4%B8%80%E4%BB%A3%E4%B8%80%E8%99%9F%E3%83%8B%E5%AE%9A%E3%83%A1%E6%85%B6%E6%87%89%E5%9B%9B%E5%B9%B4%E3%83%B2%E6%94%B9%E3%83%86%E6%98%8E%E6%B2%BB%E5%85%83%E5%B9%B4%E3%83%88%E7%88%B2%E3%82%B9%E5%8F%8A%E8%A9%94%E6%9B%B8
> >> 詔書
> >> ...慶應四年爲明治元年自今以後革易舊制一世一元以爲永式主者施行
> >> 明治元年九月八日
> >
> > Translation:
> >> Imperial Edict
> >> ... Keio 4 be renamed as Meiji 1 and since now the tradition of frequent
> > renaming of Era be limited to one Era per Emperor.
> >
> > Since Meiji, the Era is less frequently renewed. It is more engineer
> > friendly!
> >
> > In Table 22-8, the Meiji start day is omitted.
> > The omission itself is reasonable. It can avoid controversy in writing
> the
> > day along Lunar calendar used until Meiji 5 December 2 midnight. (The
> next
> > day is Meiji 6 January 1.)
> >
> > The problem here is the year shown as 1867.
> > The ordinance was released on Meiji 1 September 8 Lunar, which was 1868
> > October 23 Gregorian.
> > Meiji 1 January 1 Lunar (and Keio 4 January 1 Lunar) is 1868 January 25
> > Gregorian.
> > My best guess is that the author of Table 22-8 picked up the year value
> > from spreadsheet showing "1867-12-31" in local time, originally intended
> to
> > show merely "1868-01".
> >
> > On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 at 19:46 Martin J. Dürst <duerst_at_it.aoyama.ac.jp>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Just a few not very closely related comments:
> >>
> >> On 2016/09/29 19:06, Philippe Verdy wrote:
> >>> Is it possible that these eras start at midday instead of noon ? This
> >> could
> >>> explain the date difference, if you do not set the time in your query
> >> (your
> >>> query will assume a default time at 00:00 midnight)
> >>
> >> It's extremely difficult to imagine this for Japan in this day and age.
> >>
> >> I was in Japan when the era changed from Showa to Heisei. I remember the
> >> announcement very well, but I don't remember anything about the exact
> >> time of the cutover.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Many people still count the second half of the night after midnight as
> >> part
> >>> of the previous day (and so will say "Saturday evening"/"Saturday
> night"
> >>> even if it's already the first hours of Sunday).
> >>
> >> In Japan, that happens e.g. in displays of restaurants and bars, which
> >> may announce their opening hours as 17:30-27:00 (i.e. open until three
> >> in the morning the next day). But that's only a convention for
> >> convenience, everybody knows that it's already the next day on the
> >> calendar.
> >>
> >>
> >>> If you test dates and don't want to specify hours, it is highly
> >> recommended
> >>> to set the default time at midday. For the Japanese eras, it's not
> clear
> >> at
> >>> which time they really start, except for the last two eras since WW2
> but
> >>> setting time at midday shoudl give the correct result. However there's
> no
> >>> ambiguity during the day of era switch, if the era is correctly
> specified
> >>> (and not just the year number in era).
> >>
> >> Yes indeed. These days, people just refer to 1989 (and any dates in it)
> >> as Heisei 1 (平成元年). This is all the easier because otherwise, an
> >> exception would be necesary for only 7 days.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, I saw places that said Showa 64 as late as July (that
> >> was when I climbed Mt. Fuji; a placard put up the year before said
> >> "closed until July Showa 64"). I also got some money in February or so
> >> that year and had to sign a receipt that said Showa 64 because it was
> >> printed earlier.
> >>
> >> The Japanese Wikipedia article, at the bottom of the 改元
> >> (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%e5%b9%b3%e6%88%90#.E6.94.B9.E5.85.83) section, says
> that
> >> in contrast to the two earlier changes in era, the change started on the
> >> next day, in order to give engineers time for the change. That next day
> >> was a Sunday, which meant that in effect, they had even more time,
> >> because most systems had to work with the new ear only from Monday. But
> >> I guess it must have been a busy weekend for those involved, anyway.
> >>
> >> To know all the details, the best thing to do would be to check the
> >> official government documents, which should be available online. But I
> >> wouldn't be surprised if they were not specifying things to the second.
> >>
> >> Regards, Martin.
> >>
> >>> 2016-09-29 5:13 GMT+02:00 Junichi Chiba <junichi.chiba.bps_at_gmail.com>:
> >>>
> >>>> Dear all,
> >>>>
> >>>> Nice to e-meet you.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm looking at the latest Unicode Standard [1] listing the dates for
> >>>> Japanese Era Names in Table 22-8.
> >>>> What I noticed is the begin and end dates for each era.
> >>>> They seem to have one day difference with the dates that are
> recognized
> >>>> publicly in Japan.
> >>>> For example, the current Heisei actually started January 8th, 1989,
> >> after
> >>>> Showa ended on 7th, 1989.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, the Unicode Standard says in Table 22-8:
> >>>> U+337B square era name heisei 1989-01-07 to present day
> >>>> U+337C square era name syouwa 1926-12-24 to 1989-01-06
> >>>>
> >>>> Looking at Wikipedia in Japanese [2] and English [3], you can see
> exact
> >>>> dates for Syouwa end and Heisei start.
> >>>> Could there be certain intentions to leave some difference in this
> >>>> description and official dates?
> >>>> Is the date counted according to GMT, instead of local date/time for
> >> some
> >>>> reason?
> >>>>
> >>>> REFERENCE
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]
> >> http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode9.0.0/UnicodeStandard-9.0.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> [2] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B9%B3%E6%88%90
> >>>>>
> 1989年（昭和64年）1月7日に昭和天皇が崩御して、皇太子明仁親王が即位した（今上天皇）。これを受け、元号法に基づき1989年（昭和64年）
> >>>> 1月7日に元号法に基づき改元の政令がだされ、「平成元年1月8日」と改元がなされた。
> >>>>
> >>>> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heisei_period
> >>>>> Thus, 1989 corresponds to Shōwa 64 until 7 January and Heisei 1 ...
> >>>> since 8 January.
> >>>>> On 7 January 1989, at 07:55 JST, the Grand Steward of Japan's
> Imperial
> >>>> Household Agency, Shōichi Fujimori, announced Emperor Hirohito's
> >> death,...
> >>>>> The Heisei era went into effect immediately upon the day after
> Emperor
> >>>> Akihito's succession to the throne on 7 January 1989.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Martin J. Dürst
> >> Department of Intelligent Information Technology
> >> Collegue of Science and Engineering
> >> Aoyama Gakuin University
> >> Fuchinobe 5-1-10, Chuo-ku, Sagamihara
> >> 252-5258 Japan
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Martin J. Dürst
> Department of Intelligent Information Technology
> Collegue of Science and Engineering
> Aoyama Gakuin University
> Fuchinobe 5-1-10, Chuo-ku, Sagamihara
> 252-5258 Japan
>
Received on Sat Oct 01 2016 - 02:05:00 CDT