Re: [idn] nameprep forbidden characters

From: Martin J. Duerst (duerst@w3.org)
Date: Mon Sep 18 2000 - 03:42:03 EDT


I think it's very useful to know about the problems of Hebrew software
with points, and about the problems that Hebrew users have with using
points. And Jonathan is definitely in the best position to know about
that.

However, that doesn't mean that the best solution is to ignore points
on the client side. For example, Yiddish uses pointed letters in quite
a bit a different way; they cannot be ignored. The same may apply to
other languages written with the Hebrew script. There may also be cases
where a point can indeed make a difference.

One solution to the problem is obviously to ignore it. If Jonathan
is true, registering names with points won't be attractive, and so
there will automatically be very few registrations with points.
If it's difficult for users to input the points, then they will
be very much at ease with just inputing the base letters. Everything
will work together. For those cases where it's necessary to make
a difference (e.g. Yiddish), there won't be any problems.

Regards, Martin.

At 00/09/17 10:04 -0700, Mark Davis wrote:
>I am curious why you feel so strongly that the Hebrew points should be ignored
>in domain names. Prima facie, it seems that there is little harm in treating
>them no differently from other characters. What problem would arise if the
>domain was ABC.COM and I could not get it by typing AB*C.COM? (Here uppercase
>stands for Hebrew, and * for a point.) Conversely, if someone really did
>register AB*C.COM, would it be a problem that I couldn't get to that
>location by
>typing ABC.COM?
>
>It is my understanding that the vowels are rarely used, and that people really
>wouldn't use them in registered domain names anyway. It seems that if someone
>did take the trouble to type in the points, that there would be a reason for
>their making such a distinction.
>
>I'd appreciate it if you could help me to understand the issue more clearly.
>
>Mark
>
>Jonathan Rosenne wrote:
>
> > We should distinguish "punctuation", like 060C Arabic Comma, and
> > "diacritics", such as 064E Arabic Fatha. Diacritics is probably the wrong
> > word. I have the impression that you were referring to the latter.
> >
> > For Hebrew, my opinion is that from the point of view of the user,
> > punctuation should be forbidden, while diacritics such as the vowels and
> > other combining characters should be allowed and be ignored.
> >
> > I believe it is important that the rules for Arabic and Hebrew should
> be the
> > same as far as possible.
> >
> > Jony
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-idn@ops.ietf.org]On
> > > Behalf Of Wael Nasr
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:16 AM
> > > To: Edmon; idn working group; Adam M. Costello
> > > Subject: RE: [idn] nameprep forbidden characters
> > >
> > >
> > > Wanted to share with you that in the arabic Working group of minc we have
> > > discussed this
> > > point at length.
> > > In arabic the meaning of the word will change depending on punctuation ,
> > > like the
> > > words "knowlege" and "flag" in arabic are exactly the same except for
> > > punctuation.
> > >
> > > It is my opinion that , at least regarding arabic, no punctuation
> > > should be
> > > allowed for now.
> > >
> > > I am sure 5 years from now , domain name systems will be much more
> dynamic
> > > than what
> > > we have now and will not be simply a simple mapping of unicode or
> ascii to
> > > an ip number.
> > > at that time, punctuation can be allowed to be part of the game.
> > > wael
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------
> > > Wael Nasr
> > > Director, Middle East Business Development
> > > I-DNS.net
> > > wael.nasr@i-dns.net
> > > Cell Phone(Egypt):+(201) 222 55 380
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-idn@ops.ietf.org [mailto:owner-idn@ops.ietf.org]On Behalf Of
> > > Edmon
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 12:59 AM
> > > To: idn working group; Adam M. Costello
> > > Subject: Re: [idn] nameprep forbidden characters
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps host names
> > > > should avoid all punctuation in all languages so people don't have to
> > > > worry about it.
> > >
> > > I think we have to remember that it is the registrant's choice to
> choose a
> > > name that best reflects their identity online. Punctuations may
> > > serve to be
> > > great symbols that identifies an entity, for example a person
> > > called O'Brian
> > > would want to have the apostrophe for his domain name and a company A&B
> > > would want the "&" in their name. Our move to multilingual is the best
> > > opportunity for us to re-include these worthwhile and long awaited
> symbols
> > > back into the domain name space.
> > >
> > > Edmon
> > >
> > > >
> > > > AMC
> > >
> > >
> > >
>



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