From: Mark E. Shoulson (mark@kli.org)
Date: Thu Jan 15 2009 - 14:57:02 CST
Mark Davis wrote:
> According to the information I have (extracting from UAX31 and UTF39
> plus some heuristics on Unicode subheaders), the following are
> archaic/obsolete characters (that is, not in customary modern use).
> There are undoubtedly errores, so I'd appreciate any feedback on any
> of these that are incorrect, or any others missing that you know of.
> (Note: I have a separate question out about some of these that are IPA
> characters.)
I'm not sure what you're using as a criterion for "obsolescence," nor
where you're getting your data for it; it seems there are several
different notions of "obsolete" competing for space here.
>
> [:blk=Syriac:] [:blk=Ogham:] [:blk=Runic:]
> [:blk=Hangul_Compatibility_Jamo:]
> [:blk=Halfwidth_And_Fullwidth_Forms:] [:blk=Old_Italic:]
> [:blk=Gothic:] [:blk=Deseret:] [:blk=Byzantine_Musical_Symbols:]
> [:blk=Tagalog:] [:blk=Hanunoo:] [:blk=Buhid:] [:blk=Tagbanwa:]
> [:blk=Linear_B_Syllabary:] [:blk=Linear_B_Ideograms:]
> [:blk=Aegean_Numbers:] [:blk=Ugaritic:] [:blk=Shavian:]
> [:blk=Osmanya:] [:blk=Cypriot_Syllabary:]
> [:blk=Ancient_Greek_Musical_Notation:] [:blk=Ancient_Greek_Numbers:]
> [:blk=Buginese:] [:blk=Coptic:] [:blk=Glagolitic:] [:blk=Kharoshthi:]
> [:blk=Old_Persian:] [:blk=Syloti_Nagri:] [:blk=Phags_Pa:]
> [:blk=Phoenician:] [:blk=Cuneiform:]
> [:blk=Cuneiform_Numbers_And_Punctuation:] [:blk=Sundanese:]
> [:blk=Rejang:] [:blk=Ancient_Symbols:] [:blk=Phaistos_Disc:]
> [:blk=Lycian:] [:blk=Carian:] [:blk=Lydian:]
Just looking here, most of these are obsolete in the sense of not being
in *common* use by whatever their community once was (I wonder just how
"common" fluency was with Linear B or the Phaistos Disc script, even at
the time and place when they were used). But most if not all of these
are still in use by their respective scholarly communities.
On the other side, you list the Hangul Jamo. AFAIK, Hangul is still
very much in use. What's obsolete, apparently, is the individual jamo
way of encoding them. That's a different type of obsoleteness. To
people using the scripts described above, we would say "those scripts
aren't in common use, but they're in Unicode for you to use." To people
using Hangul, we would say "Sure, use Hangul, but *don't* use these
blocks, they're only there for compatibility."
There are probably people still out there using slightly outdated
flavors of IPA; don't write off their characters too quickly.
> ||
> |U+03D8 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03D8>| ( ? )
> GREEK LETTER ARCHAIC KOPPA
> |U+03D9 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03D9>| ( ? )
> GREEK SMALL LETTER ARCHAIC KOPPA
> |U+03DA <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DA>| ( ? )
> GREEK LETTER STIGMA
> |U+03DB <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DB>| ( ? )
> GREEK SMALL LETTER STIGMA
> |U+03DC <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DC>| ( ? )
> GREEK LETTER DIGAMMA
> |U+03DD <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DD>| ( ? )
> GREEK SMALL LETTER DIGAMMA
> |U+03DE <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DE>| ( ? )
> GREEK LETTER KOPPA
> |U+03DF <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03DF>| ( ? )
> GREEK SMALL LETTER KOPPA
> |U+03E0 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03E0>| ( ? )
> GREEK LETTER SAMPI
> |U+03E1 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=03E1>| ( ? )
> GREEK SMALL LETTER SAMPI
Aren't (some of) these still in common use in Greece for representing
numbers?
> |U+05A2 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=05A2>| ( ? )
> HEBREW ACCENT ATNAH HAFUKH
Atnah Hafukh is no more and no less obsolete than all the rest of the
cantillations/accents. No new text are being written that use it, but
it's still in use for the texts that have it. It's actually *less*
obsolete since it was rediscovered as having always been there and
merely conflated with YERAH BEN YOMO for some centuries.
> |U+05C5 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=05C5>| ( ? )
> HEBREW MARK LOWER DOT
> |U+05C6 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=05C6>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW PUNCTUATION NUN HAFUKHA
> |U+05C7 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=05C7>| ( ? )
> HEBREW POINT QAMATS QATAN
QAMATS QATAN is a recent invention; it's just coming into use, not
drifting out of use.
> |U+00B5 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=00B5>| ( µ )
> MICRO SIGN
This looks like it's more the other kind of obsolete. Are you saying it
should be replaced by U+03BC ? ? Because certainly the symbol, in both
meanings, is in current usage.
>
> |U+0132 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=0132>| ( IJ )
> LATIN CAPITAL LIGATURE IJ
> |U+0133 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=0133>| ( ij )
> LATIN SMALL LIGATURE IJ
> |U+013F <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=013F>| ( L. )
> LATIN CAPITAL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT
> |U+0140 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=0140>| ( l. )
> LATIN SMALL LETTER L WITH MIDDLE DOT
These, too, and most of the rest, are in use, but maybe not in this
form. Obsolete like the jamos, not like Linear B.
> |U+FB20 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB20>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER ALTERNATIVE AYIN
> |U+FB21 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB21>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE ALEF
> |U+FB22 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB22>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE DALET
> |U+FB23 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB23>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE HE
> |U+FB24 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB24>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE KAF
> |U+FB25 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB25>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE LAMED
> |U+FB26 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB26>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE FINAL MEM
> |U+FB27 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB27>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE RESH
> |U+FB28 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB28>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LETTER WIDE TAV
(Hebrew is what I'm familiar with, ok?) These aren't in current usage in
particular, but are they obsolete or just shouldn't have been considered
distinct in the first place? We don't have a codepoint for the LAMED
with the broken head (and I'm not saying we need one, either).
> |U+FB29 <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB29>| ( + )
> HEBREW LETTER ALTERNATIVE PLUS SIGN
> |U+FB4F <http://unicode.org/cldr/utility/character.jsp?a=FB4F>|
> ( ??? ) HEBREW LIGATURE ALEF LAMED
I understand that the ALEF LAMED ligature is still used in some
Judeo-Arabic languages.
~mark
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