A glyph is a glyph.
BMP or non-
The GDI displays whatever glyph is provided to it. Perhaps
demand for CJK Extension B support on M.E. (if any) will
drive a revision to the software enabling non-BMP support.
Since a glyph from a Plane Two font will display on M.E.,
even if bizarrely, it seems that providing non-BMP support
here wouldn't effect the GDI. Something was turned off
that perhaps shouldn't have been; or something which should
have been turned on hasn't been, yet.
Best regards,
James Kass
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@trigeminal.com>
To: "James Kass" <jameskass@worldnet.att.net>; "Tex Texin" <texin@progress.com>; "Unicoders" <unicode@unicode.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo
> Well,
>
> I do not speak for MS and would not want *that* job anyway (especially for
> issues like this one) but one thing I *know* is the first tester's axiom:
>
> "If you do not test it, its broken."
>
> I am just about positive that they did not test such a scenario. Remember
> that Uniscribe still sits atop GDI and no matter how impressive it tries to
> be, it cannot go beyond what GDI can do. I did see some very interesting
> surropgate-type problems with the Win9x GDI, so I am not surprised they
> would choose to not go down that road?
>
> As for IE vs. Win2000/WinXP, those are unfortunate bugs, and they should
> definitetely be fixed (hopefully they will fix the Extension A bugs in IE,
> too!).
>
>
> MichKa
>
> Michael Kaplan
> Trigeminal Software, Inc.
> http://www.trigeminal.com/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Kass" <jameskass@worldnet.att.net>
> To: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@trigeminal.com>; "Tex Texin"
> <texin@progress.com>; "Unicoders" <unicode@unicode.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 8:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo
>
>
> > If a Plane Two character can flicker on-and-off in MSIE 5.5
> > on Win M.E., then this OS and browser should be able to
> > display non-BMP text without any problem.
> >
> > There is no reason for it not to work. Microsoft may not
> > expect it to work and the flickering display may have been
> > unintentional or an oversight. But the flickering display
> > clearly shows that it could (and should) work.
> >
> > I don't expect it to work in Notepad on M.E., but I do expect
> > it to work in MSIE. M.E. isn't Unicode based, but MSIE and
> > Uniscribe handle complex script OpenType substitutions
> > well. The level of sophistication required for such complex
> > script handling is much, much greater than that of parsing
> > a slightly modified character map format in a font.
> >
> > Since MSIE and Uniscribe are already correctly parsing that
> > new character map format (else, how could the correct
> > Plane Two character appear at all?), the browser and/or
> > Uniscribe should be adjusted to permit non-BMP display
> > on Win M.E.
> >
> > Surely, the browser's lack of ability in being able to handle
> > UTF-8 for Plane One, while handling UTF-8 for Plane Two
> > just fine (on W2K), is a bug that should be fixed. It also
> > illustrates that non-BMP support is still rather new, still
> > under testing, and still being developed. Hopefully, future
> > updates of MSIE/Uniscribe will resolve these issues.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > James Kass.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@trigeminal.com>
> > To: "James Kass" <jameskass@worldnet.att.net>; "Tex Texin"
> <texin@progress.com>; "Unicoders" <unicode@unicode.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 2:46 PM
> > Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo
> >
> >
> > > Microsoft does not say this will work and do not expect it to work. You
> have
> > > to have an OS that suppprts this sort of thing. :-)
> > >
> > > MichKa
> > >
> > > Michael Kaplan
> > > Trigeminal Software, Inc.
> > > http://www.trigeminal.com/u
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "James Kass" <jameskass@worldnet.att.net>
> > > To: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <michka@trigeminal.com>; "Tex Texin"
> > > <texin@progress.com>; "Unicoders" <unicode@unicode.org>
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:48 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Michael Kaplan wrote,
> > > >
> > > > > When I did have this working, I had the config as shown at the
> following
> > > > > site; further respondent sayeth naught:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.i18nwithvb.com/surrogate_ime/code_charts/
> > > > >
> > > > > I was at that time running Win2000 SP2, IE 5.5, and a version of
> WEFT.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > For what it's worth, this page (all on one line):
> > > > http://www.i18nwithvb.com/surrogate_ime/code_charts/05.asp?nofont
> > > >
> > > > ...has kind of a bizarre result in the MSIE 5.5 on Windows
> > > > Millennium Edition.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't display the Plane Two glyph *unless* it is being
> > > > "selected" (as in for copy/paste operation). While it is being
> > > > selected, the display for that single character flickers between
> > > > the actual character and the dual null box characters.
> > > >
> > > > Depending upon when the mouse is released, the resulting
> > > > display will either be the Plane Two character or two null boxes
> > > > highlighted for selection. Can't make a screen shot of this
> > > > because as soon as the screen capturing software is fired up,
> > > > the highlighting disappears, and the display is back to two null
> > > > boxes. This seems to work for only one character at a time.
> > > >
> > > > But, the amazing thing is that a non-BMP character displays in
> > > > the browser on Win M.E. at all, even if briefly.
> > > >
> > > > (I fixed up the Win M.E. registry with the Scripts 42 setting and
> > > > entered appropriate font names as string values just like the
> > > > instructions for W2K.)
> > > >
> > > > This only happens with Plane Two, not Plane One. When tested with
> > > > registry set to Code2001 on Etruscan, it looked like the browser was
> > > > trying to use a fixed width font, just like it looked under W2K.
> Could
> > > > it be that the browser only tries to use a fixed width font for
> non-BMP
> > > > material? (The Plane Two font *is* fixed width, Code2001 isn't.)
> > > >
> > > > In MSIE 5.5 on Win M.E., the null boxes aren't from Code2001, even
> > > > with the registry set to Code2001 for scripts 42, and the Latin font
> > > > set to Code2001 in the browser, and even a font-face tag used in the
> > > > HTML simultaneously.
> > > >
> > > > Based on a letter from Lars Marius Garshol in which the Opera 6.0
> > > > beta is mentioned as supporting non-BMP ranges, downloaded the
> > > > free version for Windows M.E., but haven't been able to display
> > > > any Plane One or Plane Two characters yet. Do note, however, that
> > > > the Opera browser offers sophisticated display and font controls,
> > > > and possibly I just haven't figured out the right combination. Or,
> > > > it could be that only Opera for W2K-and-up supports non-BMP
> > > > ranges.
> > > >
> > > > The charts made for Plane Two (links above) are encoded as UTF-8
> > > > shortest form, right? In other words, we shouldn't be trying NCRs
> > > > for surrogate pairs or anything equally special?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > James Kass.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : Mon Nov 19 2001 - 00:53:56 EST