Re: COMBINING OVER MARK?

On 2013/10/02 9:52, Leo Broukhis wrote:
> Thanks! That comes out exactly right, although using math markup for
> linguistic purposes is, IMO, a stretch.

Why? Surely like in other fields (Math to start with), there somewhere
is a boundary between plain text and rich text. Of course it's not
always easy to agree on the exact place of the boundary, but in general,
most people would agree it's there.

Regards, Martin.

> Leo
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Mark E. Shoulson<mark_at_kli.org> wrote:
>
>> |With MathML, you could||use:||
>> ||
>> ||anathemati||||<math><**mmultiscripts><none/><mi
>> mathvariant="roman">s</mi><mi mathvariant="roman">z</mi></**math>| (drop
>> that in an HTML document and take a look).
>>
>> This doesn't look like plain text to me. I don't think it argues in favor
>> of any sort of combining Z or general combinator mark. This is just what
>> markup is for.
>>
>> ~mark
>>
>>
>> On 10/01/2013 08:05 PM, Leo Broukhis wrote:
>>
>>> If my understanding of interlinear annotations is correct, to achieve
>>> similarity with the attached sample some markup will be required as well:
>>>
>>> anathemati^{<U+FFF9>z<U+**FFFA>s<U+FFFB>}e.
>>>
>>> Leo
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Jean-François Colson<jf_at_colson.eu<mailto:
>>> jf_at_colson.eu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Le 01/10/13 15:39, Philippe Verdy a écrit :
>>>
>>>> In plain text, we would just use the [s|z] notation without
>>>> care about presentation& font sizes used in the rendered rich
>>>> text page. It correctly represent the intended alternation
>>>> without giving more importance to one base letter.
>>>> But it you wanted to allow plain text search with collators, you
>>>> would need to choose one as the base letter and the other
>>>> one as a combining diacritic with ignored higher-level
>>>> differences, using either US English or British/International
>>>> English to fix the base letter (the other letter would be an
>>>> interlinear annotation for the second orthography, either above
>>>> or below the base letter).
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Interlinear annotation… Yes, of course, you could write
>>> anathemati<U+FFF9>z<U+FFFA>s<**U+FFFB>e. Halas, the characters
>>> U+FFF9 INTERLINEAR ANNOTATION ANCHOR
>>> U+FFFA INTERLINEAR ANNOTATION SEPARATOR
>>> U+FFFB INTERLINEAR ANNOTATION TERMINATOR
>>> are not supported by any software I know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 2013/10/1 Steffen Daode<sdaoden_at_gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:sdaoden_at_gmail.com>>
>>>>
>>>> Khaled Hosny<khaledhosny_at_eglug.org
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:khaledhosny_at_eglug.org>**> wrote:
>>>> |Using TeX:
>>>> |
>>>> | \def\s{${}^{\rm s}_{\rm z}$}
>>>>
>>>> Using groff:
>>>>
>>>> #!/bin/sh -
>>>>
>>>> cat<< \!> t.tr<http://t.tr>
>>>>
>>>> .de zs
>>>> . nr #1 \\w'z'
>>>> \\Z'\
>>>> \\v'-.25v's\
>>>> \\h'-\\n(#1u'\
>>>> \\v'.5v'z\
>>>> '\
>>>> \\h'\\n(#1u'
>>>> . rr #1
>>>> ..
>>>> Fraterni
>>>> .zs
>>>> e.
>>>> !
>>>>
>>>> groff t.tr<http://t.tr> > t.ps<http://t.ps>
>>>> ps2pdf t.ps<http://t.ps>
>>>> rm t.tr<http://t.tr> t.ps<http://t.ps>
>>>>
>>>> exit 0
>>>>
>>>> (Can surely be tweaked.)
>>>>
>>>> |Regards,
>>>> |Khaled
>>>>
>>>> Ciao,
>>>>
>>>> --steffen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------- Message transféré ----------
>>>> From: Khaled Hosny<khaledhosny_at_eglug.org
>>>> <mailto:khaledhosny_at_eglug.org>**>
>>>> To: Leo Broukhis<leob_at_mailcom.com<mailto:leob_at_mailcom.com>>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: unicode Unicode Discussion<unicode_at_unicode.org
>>>> <mailto:unicode_at_unicode.org>>
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 11:09:31 +0200
>>>> Subject: Re: COMBINING OVER MARK?
>>>> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 05:51:09PM -0700, Leo Broukhis wrote:
>>>> > Hi All,
>>>> >
>>>> > Attached is a part of page 36 of Henry Alford's *The
>>>> Queen's English: a
>>>> > manual of idiom and usage (1888)* [
>>>> > http://archive.org/details/**queensenglishman00alfo<http://archive.org/details/queensenglishman00alfo>
>>>> ]
>>>> >
>>>> > Is the way to indicate alternative s/z spellings used there
>>>> plain text
>>>> > (arguably, if it can be done with a typewriter, it is plain
>>>> text)
>>>>
>>>> I see a typeset book not an output of a typewriter.
>>>>
>>>> > or rich text (ignoring the font size of letters s and z)?
>>>> >
>>>> > If it's the latter, what's the markup to achieve it?
>>>>
>>>> Using TeX:
>>>>
>>>> \def\s{${}^{\rm s}_{\rm z}$}
>>>>
>>>> 49. How are we to decide between {\it s} and {\it z} in
>>>> such words as
>>>> anathemati\s{}e, cauteri\s{}e, criti\-ci\s{}e,
>>>> deodori\s{}e, dogmati\s{}e,
>>>> fraterni\s{}e, and the rest? Many of these are derived from
>>>> Greek
>>>> \bye
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Khaled
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Received on Wed Oct 02 2013 - 23:51:10 CDT